This going to be an around the walls shelf layout in HO scale. I need enough depth for a single main with passing sidings, mainstreet, sidewalk, and a row of commercial buildings (think cornerstone merchants row) I want enough room for nice scenes,but I don’t want the layout to take up the whole room. I’m thinking Max would be 24", but that might be too much. The room is 13.5’ square. The layout will be on 3 walls. Any experience you can share in deciding the shelf with? I’m using dual slotted heavy duty shelf brackets.
Hi,
I would make it the max that was practical (i.e. 24 inch?), AND, I would add a triangle in each corner so as to allow more room for the curves. Even an 8x8x8 sided triangle would make a huge difference in what you could do with the layout.
ENJOY!
24 inches sounds good. The general recommendation is not to go over 30 inches, because you really can’t reach beyond that. This is a 30-inch shelf on my layout:
As you can see, there is plenty of room for 3 foreground tracks, a road and a row of buildings. There are 4 more tracks behind the buildings. This is an image just to the right of the first one:
The two tall buildings are City Classics kits. I cut about an inch and a half from the side walls of each of them, to gain a bit more space in the foreground. I trimmed the station in the top picture in a similar way. (It’s the Walthers YMCA, but it makes a fine station, too.)
I’d originally planned the 4 tracks behind the buildings to be staging, but they have evolved more into “active storage” or perhaps “visible staging.” By having trains “disappear” behind the buildings, it makes the layout seem larger and hide the fact that the trains are just making one long loop around.
Here’s what you get if you do the math:
|
Minimum |
Desirable |
|
|
Space behind backdrop |
0.75 |
0.75 |
|
Backdrop |
0.25 |
0.25 |
|
Backdrop to back of buildings |
0.00 |
3.00 |
|
Merchants Row |
5.00 |
5.00 |
|
Sidewalk |
1.25 |
2.25 |
|
Road |
2.75 |
3.25 |
|
2 tracks (modern equipment) |
5.00 |
5.00 |
|
Tracks to fascia |
3.00 |
6.00 |
|
< |
My around-the-walls shelf layout is on three walls of a room that is about 12’ square. I also used dual slotted heavy duty shelf brackets. On one wall, the shelf is actuall built back into what was the closet after those closed doors were removed. My shelf layout is 24" deep, but only 18" deep within that closet area. As mentioned by an earlier post, placing a triangle into the corners greatly assists in laying out curves, and my “triangle” extends out 9" each direction from the corner of those 24" shelves.
This layout has worked well for me. I still have a double bed in the room for guests. The layout is high enough that bookcases and file cabinets can fit under the layout and not take additional floor space. My workbench is built into that closet and under the layout. It doesn’t leave a large room but it is servicable.
This photo was taken mostly to show off my efforts in adding to the vehicles for the layout, but it can give you an idea of images that can be created with a 24" shelf and some Cornerstone buildings against the backdrop.
Bill
I’m using commercial shelf components with brackets, I think the brand name is “John Sterling”. I use 16" wide shelfs for the layout. If you put tracks side to side in normal spacing with no buildings you can get 6 tracks in there. Using Walthers background buildings, you can get 4-5 tracks in comfortably. So using full size buildings, a double track main should work fine.
I use shelving above the layout for lighting, by attaching 1x3s to the upper shelf as a valance. I found some cheap 10" wide boards at the local ‘big box’ home supply store and use them sort of as spacers toward the back of the upper shelf, then use 12" wide John Sterling shelves closer the the aisle. That way the upper level is 22" wide, and the florescent lights hang out farther than the 16" wide layout. If the lights aren’t out in the aisle side a little bit, the part of the layout nearest the aisle can be a little dark.
BTW using 16" wide shelfs in an L at the corner, I found 31-1/8" radius Kato Unitrack fit fine without needing to do an extra piece of benchwork in the corner.
It’s not a fixed number. It is deterrmined by how high the benchwork is, how tall you are, how long your arms are, etc.
Mine is 30 inches, 24 inches on the subway level so I see and reach it but it still seems to be in a tunnel.
With 13.5’ long walls and 24" layout depth, you are left with 9.5’ of walkway. I was looking at a similar width at one time and thought about putting a penninslula in the center. A 2’ wide penninsula would still leave you over 3’ each side for people space. You can also reduce the width to the shelf a little in places and add a little other places to get away from the straight line effect along your walkways.
Good luck,
Richard
Railroad of LION (On wall-shelf section) is three levels. Top level is 12" and the lower two levels are 16", but are off set from the wall by 5" since I used risers to support the layout rather than wall brackets.
LION has helixi on the blobs, but if you have knot blobs, ewe could have a single track rise between the two levels (if as ewe wanted tow levels, but that could be tricky: let us call it 24’ for the incline : at 2% it would be able to go up ?" .
ROAR
Thanks guys, this just the kind of response I needed. The photos and info is appreciated. I’m actually starting the layout tonight and soon as I have something to take a picture of ill start a build thread.
I don’t know about the others, but I’d be interested in seeing your progress. I started taking of pictures of mine at the benchwork stage. I used the L-girder and cookie cutter method. If I had to do it all over again:
- I would have attached the cleats from underneath. Once you’ve covered the subroadbed with ballast and scenery, it was kind of hit and miss when I had to unscrew it. [banghead]
- COMPLETELY wired the track before I put in ANY scenery. It’s much easier to attached feeders and solder to main wiring from the top, instead of doing it from underneath. Again [banghead]
But I did most of the layout before joining the forums. They’re such a great source of information. I learned a lot from the posted mistakes of others.
Thanks, I now have 5 wall standards up with brackets. This is going to be tough because the house is 115 years old and the walls are not true,plumb, square,etc. Its a real headache getting everything right.
10ft wide sidewalk 1.38in 1 lane rd with parking 2.75in 2 lane rd 3.25 in (12ft lanes) 2in track spacing = 4in
With budget a consideration I went with 16" shelves so I could get three lengths out of a 4 x 8 sheet of expensive hardwood plywood for the base. I also put triangles on each inside corner as suggested above to allow more room on the major curves. I would have preferred 24" but that would have made my aisles too narrow with my penninsula running down the middle of the room.
Currently mine varies between 12 and 24 inches. I used 24 at my town and 12 for the countryside, with some variance. If I needed, I would bump out maybe a bit more for a specific scene. There’s no reason for a one size fits all shelf. Also, don’t let the size of the shelf brackets limit the width of the layout “shelf.” We use the terms “shelf” but it’s a mistake to think of it as a shelf with track on it. You can easily use open grid or L girder or even domino construction and let the front edge width flow as needed.
Even newer construction can have walls w/ bowed studs and out of plumb. If you do have a few “shelf” standards that are extremely off, You can shim the standard to try to get the extended bracket end as close to level “line” as possible. The waving of the bowed horizontal shelf line is not as critical as having the bracket as close to level as possible. Set standards to a level “reference” line and mount w/ a min of screws. A dryline placed @ the bracket ends along w/ a 6-8ft straightedge and level will allow any shimming of the standards.If there are only a couple offending “high” spots that are causing you to have to shim far too many standards, the plaster/ wall can be gouged to set those into the surface helping w/ all other portions of the wall attachment. Once satisfied w/ the level of the shelf brackets you can shim and secure, 2-2 1/2" deck screws will work better than DW screws, especially for the “upper” anchoring or the standard that hold the major portion of the shelf weight.
I’ve had to try to perform “miricles” even in cabinet installation on “new” homes. Always a challenge. looking forward to your progress.
When my currant layout was going to be mostly a shelf layout, I fiqured out 19" was the min. with 18" radius curves. My layout as built became 24" as I wanted a return track in the back to make a dogbone layout.
Bogp40, that’s exactly what I’ve been doing. I use a 6’ level set across the shelf brackets, I drive the center screw, then use a smaller level to get it right vertically, then put in the bottom screw. I’ve been then using various sizes of wood for shims.