I just bought this and I’m looking to find out the aproximate age and version. It’s a American Flyer HO.
2 Likes
It was made in 1956. Look at the site www.gilbertho.org for more information.
1 Like
I don’t think 1956 is quite right. While it has a shell that has 446 stamped on it, the locomotive chassis has no room for the smoke & choo-choo unit, and has an earlier style motor. It looks like my 151 Hudson, internally. I suspect the shell and tender are from a 446, but the loco chassis is not.
Gibert did often stamp the date of manufacture onto the inside of locomotive shells. But of course, if this is indeed a chassis swapped loco, then the date on the loco shell might not apply to the chassis.
-El
1 Like
The shell is 1956 production, it came with an electronic whistle. The chassis with the vertical motor appears to be from the smoke in tender version of the 151 as you say. The smoke tube is not present.
2 Likes
The shell does fit the chassis. It has cut outs for the large upright mounting motor. It has alos been re-wired. That made things hard get back togeather.
But I do like your idea that maybe its not as it left the factory because the front truck manages to keeps the front 2 drive wheels from touching the track and driving much. But it does seam to run well and strong when it can.
The cylenders are loose though, ill have to 3d print a shim or something between the cylender peice and the bottom.of the boiler.
All screws are attracted. I figure I can fix the wheel contact issue by cutting or chaging the spring.
1 Like
The tender is hallow/empty and there is no smoke unit present in the boiler either despite me being told it had one. Bought this at a train show from an old guy who was a talker for $70
Not sure if I got ripped off yet, but im sarting to think I did a bit.
1 Like
I’d be a bit irked if I got an engine that should have a smoker, was told it did, and it in fact didn’t.
If the tender was supposed to have a smoke unit, the shell would have a hole in it for the filler cap. I have such an example.
The cab lettering does not appear to match pictures I can find of original 446 locomotives, so I’m skeptical that it really is one. More inclined to think someone redecorated a 151. An original 446 ought to have the whistle aperatus in the tender, rather than being completely empty, so that also raises a red flag that something is “off”.
I’m always a little wary of buying trains from these sorts of people, I like to do my own visual inspection and see if I can catch any obvious faults. Helps to know what you’re buying a little, so you can recognize if something doesn’t seem right.
It’s not a crappy engine by any means, just not as nice as the one you thought you were buying.
-El
1 Like
totally fair. Im not so bent out of shape about not having the smoke unit, but this is literally the first ever American Flyer iv ever had my hands on. But my senses were telling me that I shouldn’t have taken the guy at his word…
still happy its an original Flyer though!
but the fact that the letters dont look the same told me later that they were changed .
2 Likes
thanks for your help so far!
2 Likes
If I had to guess, the guy decided to give a 151 a makeover to sell it as a higher end 446 as El suggested. Look at the left side cab numbers. They’re brighter white than the tender lettering, and the font seems off. The second 4 on the left side of the cab isn’t even the same size. I don’t know if these were originally heat stamped or rubber stamped, but it shouldn’t be that bad. For what it’s worth though, the engine looks pretty good, other than some paint loss under the cab. All the wheels look decently clean, and the tender lettering seems crisp still. Does it run?
1 Like
Still works. But the not all of the drive touch the track because the front truck of 4 has too large of a spring or something lifting some of the drive wheels off the track, but when it can get some traction it seams to run well.
I was working on fixing that last night. Didnt get anywere because I didnt want to cut the spring.
2 Likes
a picture of the lead truck and spring might help with advising you on next steps.
-El
2 Likes
Sorry for the long wait on a reply. You can see that the front 2 of the 3 drices wheels is being lifited off the track.
Upon closer examination, it appears to me that both the pilot truck and its spring are incorrect for this engine! They appear to belong to a Lionel HO pacific, such as the 0636. I also see a nut above the spring, which can’t be helping the problem any. There’s insufficient space for the spring to be compressed.
-El
2 Likes
If that is a spring it is doing a great job of mimicking a stack of washers.
1 Like
You can see it’s wire because of the consistent semicircular cross section. Washers would likely be punched.
On the other hand, that is a helical spring pushed tightly closed, which might as well be a stack of washers in terms of allowing the front truck to float and not push the front of the chassis up!
1 Like
Well said.
It is one spring.
In my opinion, the first move would be to replace that spring with a much smaller one, maybe a conical spring. I dont think there would be too much trouble reusing that truck unless the wheels are too large in diameter (that would explain the loco being raised so high on the truck), which looks like it might be the case. Maybe hunt down a truck with smaller wheels? Since the mounting point appears to be in the middle finding a replacement shouldn’t be too hard.
I think he should wind a replacement, with finer wire. The purpose of the spring is not to support the front of the chassis, it is to push down the frame with fairly long travel so the four wheels can ‘articulate’ to follow the track.
I’d try winding it as double conical, so there is a greater bearing surface at the chassis and at the truck frame with the center necking down toward the screw diameter. That will give the articulating action but let them pull on the center section to adjust downforce.
Exactly. Right now, the loco is supported by the truck, and looking at it I believe the reason for that is because the wheels are too large. El stated that it may be a Lionel Pacific lead truck, and if that’s the case it would explain the poor fit.