Need Help From the Pro's

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Yep, that’s you guys…

Hello all,

Still new here and haven’t posted in awhile. Earlier in the year I had a plan to start my model railroad but after moving to a new home and having a very pregnant wife I had to put things on hold… until now.

Just some background: Typical starter 4x8 in a spare bedroom and I would like to run 2 trains. Considering a few of the Atlas track plans as a starting point.

OK, probably asked a million times on this forum… to DCC or not to DCC that is the question. Money is a small factor but not the major decider. One of the biggest deciding factors for me is if DCC is designed to replace DC in the long run and will companies start making everything to be used with DCC thus making DC a thing of the past. I’m sorry if this is a question every newbie asks.

Oh, and I’m the proud father of identical twin girls who will be a month old at the end of this week and I can’t wait to throw little conductor hats on them in front of the RR. Thanks guys. [:D]

2

Skates - For one just starting today, DCC would be the better choice but you’ll have to be careful that track components you purchase, like turnouts, are fully DCC compatible. You’d also be smart to get a book that will acquaint yourself with how DCC works and some of the problems that can arise in its use before starting out on any layout.

As to DC, there is no worry it will ever become obsolete as long as there are members of the Baby Boom generation in the hobby. DC still seems to comprise 75% of the hobby and this will only change very slowly with time (it’s taken DCC about ten years just to get as far as it has).

So, in short, either choice would be reasonable but DCC does offer more glitzy possibilities than DC in the long run.

CNJ831

3

Hi,

I just wrote this for another guy and I’m cutting and pasting.

  1. IF you have the space for a 4x8 layout, you have the space for a better design. Please look athe the following threads.
    http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=46916
    http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=46614

  2. Plan well and do your homework. What you do in the planning stages determines how good your layout will look and how much fun you will have when it’s running. A good rule of thumb I read is that it will cost you $50 per sq/ft to build and 50 hours per sq ft. Putting the time to design it well is the most productive time you will spend on the layout. Find and read the following books.

Track Planning for Realistic Operations[i] by John Armstrong. This is a tough read, but read it until you get it. I started this hobby last Christmas and understanding this book is the key between building a model railroad and playing with toy trains. It is the difference between keeping your interest alive and doing it for the pop son team–and he’ll like it better too if you two operate together. Train operations is a team sport. I had to read it 3 times.

[i]Small, Smart and Practical Track Plans by Iain Rice. This guy is really good at getting a lot of railroad into a small space and having it make sense.

  1. Draw your plan in a computer program and post it here. XtraCAD is a free program and is excellent. The guys here will help you with design. With the software package you will be able to make your changes without starting over. Don’t trust track plans in books to work like they do inthe books. Draw them on the computer porgram and let the guys here point out the flaws. Many of the guys here are the guys who write for the magazines and whose layouts are published. The better you do at design, the more likely they will be interested in helping. Attitude is everything.

Good luck and besure to ask questions.

4

As always, SpaceMouse, aka “Chip” has given you some excellent advise. I would only chime in to say that if it were me… (Which it isn’t) knowing what I do today, after using DC for 25 years or so and switching to DCC 2 years ago, I wouldn’t even think of going back to DC. With DC a solo operating session was sort of like… OK, the mogel is on cab A… NO B! Oops! Now why did that stop there? Oh throw the switch to cab A. &*^% missed the turnout… etc., etc, etc. I found that I could run one train effectively and throw all the block switches. With DCC I can easily operate two or three trains by myself. I now spend time running trains not the track!

With the price today of good entry level upgradable DCC systems, I can think of no reason not to use DCC. And yes, DCC is the future of the hobby. For you a Digitrax Zepher or other good entry level (and I again emphasize upgradable) DCC system would be a good choice.

Enjoy your trains!

5

DCC Yes. Shelf layout Yes… Frankly, if you have room for a perminant 4x8 (I mean one you won’t be moving around), you have room for an 8x12 around the room shelf layout with a 4x8 center work space. That’s 64 square feet of layout space (2 foot wide shelf) in the same space a 32 square foot (the 4x8 plywood prarie) would allow… The problem of tight radii goes away for the most part too… Or at least it’s not as restricted…

Good luck with all of it,

Jeff
[swg]

6

Let me add my voice to those who urge you to decide to start into DCC right away. Believe us when we say that it makes the enjoyment of your trains so much less “involved” after you have done the wiring and figured out how your DCC system works. Want your Loco A to move down the yard a bit.? Do it with the twist of a knob that has that loco addressed. In the mean time, Loco B sits where you left it. Try that without throwing switches as you would in DC. If Loco B is in the same block, it will move while Loco A is moving because it is recieving energy. Not so in DCC. You have to tell Loco B to move, even if it is coupled to Loco A! If you don’t address Loco B with your throttle, then Loco A will have to drag it. In DC, they would move together, but…is that what you wanted?

Look at it like air conditioning and radios in automobiles. Few people had them at first, but now…?

7

Thanks guys, I think DCC might be the way to go after reading your responses and doing more research. Selector, yes I would like to control them individually. Now another stupid question… I had to order one of these because I want a Chicago commuter train (Metra)

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/931-331

Will a DCC decoder work in one of these?

Thanks again

8

Skates:

I find it interesting that people often cite cost as a reason to not go with DCC starting out. Let’s look closer at that for a moment.

For a typical 4x8 you want to run 2 trains, let’s say. That means two power packs. You’ll want to wire for cab control, so that will be perhaps 5 blocks on the layout, let’s say. You’ll need a control panel with toggles to connect a given block to a given train. You’ll need to run wires from each toggle to each block on the layout, so let’s say you need twice as much wire to wire cab control than you do to just go with DCC.

Let me add that you won’t be able to run the trains unattended because you will have to keep flipping block toggles as the trains run around the layout … that’s not a cost factor, but it is a significant hassle factor, which will make up for some of the cost.

Okay, here’s the total cost for cab control on a typical 4x8 layout. To compare apples to apples, you need to get a pretty nice power pack, or you just won’t have the monentum features, etc that you get with DCC.

2 quality power packs: $60 each, total $120
5 block toggles, $2 each, total $10
100 feet of #18 feeder wire: total $15

Grand total: $145.

DCC starter systems (Tony’s Trains Exchange) …

Digitrax Zephyr: $160
NCE PowerCab: $140 (announced, available soon)

As you can see, when you compare apples to apples, DCC itself is not really any more expensive than straight DC. And as layout size increases (more cabs, more wiring), DC actually becomes more expensive than DCC.

Now you will need to put decoders in all your locos, but you can do that a little at a time, and if you are starting out, that’s the best of all. With fleet decoders going for under $20 each, the price is quite reasonable.

And with DCC, you can let one train run unattended on your 4x8 while you do switching moves with another train. Adds lots of "pl

9

You can put DCC in anything. That said, some are easy and some are as close to impossible as a worm’s belly is to dirt. Just guessing, that one won’t be a worm’s belly.

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with a 4 x 8 layout you’re not going to have a lot of locos unless you’re a collector . you might want the added fun of your engines making sound while they run , so figure $75+ per engine for sound decoders . well worth it i think

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Thanks guys… DCC it is! My first loco is the one I ordered from Walthers so I don’t have any others to put decoders in yet. jfugate made a good point about the money thing. Your responses are appreciated.

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Congratulations on the Girls!!

I have a 17mnth old and she loves Daddys trains.

Ken.

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Thanks Ken, I’m holding one of them as I type… whoever thought a 6 pound baby could be so heavy!