Got my fathers O gauge Lionel set out and am trying to get it running but having some problems getting it going. Last time this set was ran was well over 20 years ago so i know it’s possible something mechanical might be wrong and not conductor error. Found out how to hook up the lock on clip to the track and connected it to posts A and U like it said on the transformer (It’s a Trainmaster Type TW ) set the engine and tender on the track at first nothing happened. Checked to see if the train was on the track right and if there was anything that might of been physically causing a short and didn’t find anything. Checked my connections again and tried a few variations and eventually left the controls on low and pulled the train closer to where the clip was and it started to move in reverse on its own. Stopped it at the controls and moved it forward at the trnsformer and it did so on it’s own for about 4-6 inches and then stopped. Tried this a few times to see if i could pick up on whats wrong and eventually started to faintly smell an electrical burn and quickly shut everything down, pulled the plug, and got the train off the track. Smelled it so quickly and shut it all down so fast don’t know if it came from the transformer or the engine. After looking it over again and testing a few more things where i’m at now is the transformer still lights up and when i trigger the whistle it works but no movement out of the engine. Never got that burning smell again after that inital time either so that’s good i guess. Like i said above the train hasn’t been used in 20 plus years prob closer to 25 years but the train is from the eairly 50’s so that’s why i wonder if it’s an age and inactivity thing where it might just need maintance and cleaning or there’s a wiring problem causing a short or something else? Like i said it was my fathers so i don’t want to burn it up troubleshooting so i figured i better ask people with more experence with these trains.
If it was the transformer I don’t think you would be able to activate the whistle. Most times on older lionel engines the mian cause for issues after long durations of storage is electrical contact and the e unit. I would clean all the electrical contacts, the rollers and wipe the wheels down but be careful not to scrub off the blackened wheels paint. While doing this I would also remove the shell from the engine and lube the gears and oil the motor. At this time you could also inspect the wiring. If it still don’t run after it is on the track the next place I would look to would be the e unit. It could be that the finger contacts are getting stuck to the drum on the e unit and not allowing the engine to cycle into different directions. One question, when the engine moved a couple of inches and then stopped again, did you hear a click or buzz?
The most important item to check from a safety viewpoint is the cord on the transformer. On old transformers the cord insulation becomes brittle and easily cracks. If you don’t have the skills replacement is best done by a repair shop. For engines, the first thing is to give them a good cleaning and lube as previously mentioned. I like to bench test mine using alligator clips, hot to roller, common to frame, wheel, etc. This eliminates any electrical problems that might be with the track connections. Good luck.
Fox14120,
What’s the engine’s number?
What you’re describing, does not sound like a three position E-unit in the neutral position just causing a humming sound and then again sometimes, if a three position E-unit is in neutral, there won’t be a hum, but the engine will stand still with, (If A Headlight Is Present), it’s headlight on and if it has a smoke unit, sometimes the smoke pellet(of '40’s, '50’s and maybe '60’s), or smoke fluid (1970’s, to present) will burn off causing smoke to rise up out of the smoke stack, that’s if these type of fuels are in the smoke stack’s smoke unit.
Best, as others have mentioned, to take it to a hobby shop with a qualified repair service.
Good Luck,
Ralph
Not sure now if what i smelled was really a burning after i wrote this picked up and smelled the engine and it had that smell most old electrical stuff had from the 60’s on back something we don’t get in electrical stuff today and beginning to think that if it was a burning it might of been just dust burning off dust from being in it’s box for so long. Happens so fast hard to tell but the light on the engine flickers a little when it does run so some thing power wise is going on in the engine too. To answer Train-O’s question it #681 the post war database has it at being made from 1950-53. At this point while the engine needs to be cleaned and oiled beginning to the main problem isn’t in the engine and more and it’s in the track or transformer. The transformer actually looks good on the surface the only flaws are the paint coming off the L’s in the center of each handle and the red handle is faded alittle other then that the transformer doesn’t look more then 10-15 years old certinally not close to 60 years. The power cord looks looks almost new still dark black and no breaks in the cord either. Was thinking all day about this so when i got home i got out the multimeter and tested the track. Where the lock on is connected and the next piece of track on either side of it i get and even current go to the next ones and the current drops to zero. Tried it on both ends and same results it’s like only those 3 pieces of track exist. Checked at each end and cleaned them with green pads and even replaced the pieces and still get the same results. How many lockon clips does it take to run a 4x8 setup? I know for larger setups you add a second on the opposite end to maintain equal power but would of thought one lockon clip would cover more then 3 pieces of track. To this point that’s where i am right now with it.
Trying to use old track that wasn’t “mothballed” only can lead to gray hair, or none at all. To avoid the frustration it is sometimes better to bite the bullet and get new(er) tack. If rust has developed on the inside of the rail there is little that you can do to clean the contact area where the pins are.
Oh no when i replaced it i did it with practiaclly new track no run on them. They look as good as what i’d get if i bought it new and still whiped them down with the green pad incase there was oxidation on them.
I would guess that the track pins arent making good electrical contact through to the next track section that your not getting a reading on. Pull out the pins with a pair of needle nose plyers and spray some contact cleaner inside the holes where the pins were. I would also scrub the pins a little while they are out. If you own a dremel it is a good tool to use for something like this. Once they are clean put them back in the track and use the plyers to give the track ands a little squeeze to make sure they are making contact and give it another try. Tell me what happens.
“Where the lock on is connected and the next piece of track on either side of it i get and even current go to the next ones and the current drops to zero.” I’m having trouble understanding this statement. You’re not putting an ammeter across the track, are you? What did you measure and what did you measure it with? Where was the locomotive? How was the transformer set?
Sometimes the simplest of things is the answr. Double check that your hot lead is going to the center rail.
Yeah that was my thought too n1vets33 especially since this wasn’t rocket science there had to be a interrupt somewhere if there was a short the power would be jumping up and down beyond those 3 track pieces and not just dropping to zero like there was no track there. Eventually found the problem with the power to the track some had track pieces had plastic pins in connecting the center rails so it was getting no positive charge. Replaced them with metals and after that no matter what i set the transformer to weather it was 7 volts or 18 volts i get a uniform current around the track with no more then a .3 difference. So i put the engine back on the track and first time got it to go in reverse but had no control over it except full stop. After that reset the engine back where i had it on the track and nothing happens unless i turn the power up to 18 volt and then all that happened was there was a hum sound and the light on the transformer flicked and dimmed like in those old mad scientist movies when he’s doing experiments but the engine and tender didn’t move and can’t get the whistle to work either. Took the engine back off and checked the track and still get that uniform voltage all around so still no problems in the track.
North Tonawanda is near Cheektowaga, NY so I would just run down to Niagara Hobby and they will test the locomotive and tell you it is [tup] or [tdn].
http://www.niagarahobby.com/Default.aspx
If they can’t fix it, they will know someone that can.
Have you taken the shell off of the engine yet? I would check the e unit, it is the little drum connected to the lever sticking out of the top of the e unit. When ever you power the transformer on and off it should mechanically spin the drum and cycle the engines direction. Check to see if this is happening.
Thanks Buckeye i know of the place but i’m further north then NT that’s a 35-40 mile haul out there mostly throught the city so not a quick run to the store. There’s another one that’s been around for 30+ years and it a closer Lionel dealer \ service station it’s the one my dad use to use and that is still close to 20 miles away and just inside Buffalo. I’ve been trying to find time to get out to both that one and the one you mentioned to shop for almost a month now and haven’t been able to make it yet with my schedule. At this point won’t be able to till eairly next week. Might be what i have to do since no one else in my family has a set. Not yet n1vets33 haven’t been down to work on it since i posted last and figured i’d check here before i headed back down to see if there was any other ideas on stuff to try but taking the shell off was my next move to atleast clean it but did notice the lever on top seemed alittle loose and at one point last night originally thought that might of been the origin of the problem.
Took the engine apart it was a mess in there residue from the smoke pellets everywhere and about a quarter inch thick on the outside of the cylinder that the smoke was made in. Cleaned it all up under the shell and other then that everything looked ok. Took it over to the track and tested it with the shell still off and everything looked good and worked the way it should with the transformer running at 10 volts. Put the shell back on and tested it again still worked at 10 volts. Added the tender next and had to bump it up to about 13 volts to keep the same speed and keep it from bogging down on the far end of the track but other then that no problems and whistle worked too. After that added the boxcar and it let out a hum and almost stopped on the far end of the track had to give it a volt or 2 more to get it back to me but once it started getting closer backed it back down to 13 volts and by the time it almost got to me (only a few feet from me) let out another hum and stopped dead and a whisp of smoke came out the back end of the engine. Let it cool for a few mins and then tried see if it would still run but the engine didn’t move there was a hum again and the light on the transformer did that flickering again. After that shut it all down and took the shell off again didn’t smell any burning and everything looked ok still. Gave it a rest for about an hour and gave it another try with the shell still off and thing worked fine like it did after i cleaned it. Total time i had it running during all those test tries was about 10 mins and when i added the boxcar it only made it around the track twice before it gave out. Starting to see why my dad put it away. Between the engine and the track and lack of internet back then he wouldn’t gotten this far this quick and didn’t have the time to spend trying to fix it all.
All you say is you ‘cleaned it’. You don’t mention anything about oiling and lubing it. There could be a number of things ‘wrong’ with the engine, but since you can get it to run it can be ‘fixed’. The engine really sounds like it needs to be serviced by a reputable repairman. I have a 2020 and a 681 (same style engines) and took both of them to my LTS a few years ago to be serviced. The 681 got a good cleaning, lube and oil and it has NEVER run better. The 2020 needed the cleaning, lube and oil, but it also needed new brushes and a the armature rewound, it too now runs smooth as silk. My #50 gang car also got a service job and performs flawlessly… hmmm… now I’m thinking about setting up a small 1950’s layout… THANKS! Just what I needed another excuse to build another layout… wife is going to be thrilled! [:)]
When you power the transformer on and off, does the engine cycle direction as it should? Is the E-unit drum spinning as it should when cycling on and off? If so you could scratch that out as being the issue although I would still oil the drum and spray with some contact cleaner while the shell is off. I would check the armature and motor brushes next. When you hold the engine in your hands and roll the wheels over the palm of your hand does everything move freely. I can’t see the engine but something like a piece of dirt or thread bindeing the wheels would make sense from what your describing. Could you post some pictures of the engine with the shell off. Preferably up close shots.
while you had the shell off, did you, grease the worm gear, oil both ends of the motor armature, oil the eight axle bearings and the 8 connecting rod pivots?
this sounds like old dried out lubrication.
that bogging at the far end of the layout is due to additive voltage drops at each track section joints. one easy way to overcome a bunch of that is add a second power feed (Loc-on) at the far end of the the loop and run two wires from the one you already have on the track to the new one, minding polarity.
Here’s the pics of under the shell. Everything looks oiled to me at this point gota get into the under part where the rollers are but even thought there was all the sedimint from the smoke pellets in the front half surprised the back half looked as clean as it did. Asked my uncle since it use to be both his and my dads and he doesn’t recall it being serviced when they were younger and my mom said she didn’t think it was during the 15-20 years they had it up at their house before it was put away in 84 or 85.
If there’s a lot of smoke residue inside the shell, you might be missing the felt washer (“stack gasket”, 671-181) that goes between the smoke generator and the shell. It’s easy to lose it when taking the shell off.