Need help with my first building attempt.

Model Railroader Layouts and layout building
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I decided to take a little diversion from track laying and try building one of the structures for my town. It is a lumber rack and office from Alpine Division scale models. I also ordered some handcar setoffs, I don’t remember the manufactor.

I tried to down load info from the “how to” section and all I got was “file was damaged and was unable to repair”

I have many question so please bear with me.

Can I use Elmers Carpenture’s glue for wood to wood and wood to cardboard?

Do I need Super Glue for the plactic to wood and plactic to cardboard?

Can I use latex paint like you would use for your house for the wood and cardboard ,the nearest hobby store is 110 miles away thats why I ask about the latex. I presume I will need some sort of oil base paint for the plastic?

I am assuming that I need to paint before assembly, so will the glue stick to the painted surfaces?

On the handcar setoffs I was going to stain them to look like creasoat lumber(I have no idea how to spell it). If the wood is stained before assembly, will the Elmer’s stick.

Thanks for time, I look forward to hearing from you.

Ken in East Texas

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Hello. I use wood glue when building wood frameworks and structures in scale. I have also used Ambroid and super glue (CA). Get the gel kind of CA as you can gob it on a bit and not have to worry about it running.

Ambroid or CA for the styrene to wood.

Wal Mart has crafty acrylic paints in the small plastic bottles. Otherwise, yes to the latex, but if you can thin it a wee bit and apply it thinly, not like outer window sills…you would be okay. Remember you need to glue it together afterward, unless you paint all items later after assembly.

Don’t need oil base for the plastic. I use the Wally World acrylic crafts paints, both thinnned (usually) and straight out of the bottle on my models. You can use that paint on plaster castings, too.

Many of the ‘better’ modellers, those really finnicky about how their work looks, will paint first and glue later. The problem with the other way around is that the glue that smears outside the joint, and some always does, will act as a barrier to penetration into the wood surface when you paint it all later.

I use real creosote oil left to me by my father. I wa delighted to find a hefty supply of it in a can in good condition. However, the wimmin-folk aren’t all that keen about having the smell in the house, so I do it only once every five or six years and plead insanity. I do usually use “Burnt Umber” from the selection of acrylic craft paints at Wally’s. If you feel it is too dark, mix in a bit of ‘tan’, or add some white sparingly, and later swipe it with a greyish wash to show its age.

Don’t ever be averse to trials for any purpose. Better to educate yourself with a few temporary failed experiments than to ruin a rare or precious hobby project. Try things when you think of them. I thought to add a pinch of plaster of paris powder to this epoxy water to make it a bit turbid. I didn’t rea

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Thanks Selector. There are lots of Wal-marts around here, so I shall start a shoping list.

Do I need to primer the wood, cardboard or plastic? If so is there some sort of acrylic primer?

I purchased an inexpensive air brush for these buildings just to see how things work. With luck it should give a better finish than with a brush I would think.

Thanks again for the info, by the way GREAT LOOKING layout.

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No, you don’t really need to use primer with the acrylics, although you may need more than one coat.

As for airbrushing, I have airbrushed the acrylic craft paints, but they have to be thinned first. I use a product called Wagoner Paint Easy as an acrylic thinner I get from Lowes. It is sold and used to thin latex paint for spraying through an electric spray gun. I thin the craft paints about 50-50 to spray them. I use a Paasche VL with a number 5 needle and tip at 25 psi. For airbrushing acrylics you need the largest tip that can be used on the airbrush.

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Thanks Gandydancer, I have to go to town toworrow so I will checkout Lowe’s for the thinner, and then off to Wal-Mart for some acrlyic paints and then I’ll be on the way to building my first structure.

Sure appreciate all the help, thanks

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Hi, Ken,

Maybe a little late to the party, but here goes:

There aren’t too many “have to”'s in this hobby. Some things work better than others, but most will work after a fashion. To specifically address your points:

Carpenter’s glue is a great adhesive for just about any porous material. For that matter, so is everyday old white glue. Another thing you can look for is so-called tacky glue. I use a brand called Aleene’s; there are others. Basically, this is white glue with much of the water removed, so it holds better initially and doesn’t run.

For dissimilar materials, Ambroid works, as does CA, as does a product called Walther’s Goo. However, if you’re gluing plastic to cardboard, you can simply scuff up the side of the plastic with very fine sandpaper (400 grit), and white or yellow glue will hold just fine, too.

I use interior latex house paint (Glidden) for a base coat on my landscape. They’ll work for other applications too, but since they don’t come in small containers, this may be a false economy. I would avoid oil-based paints. Use solvent- or acrylic- based paints. I’ve been using acrylics exclusively for 30 years, with excellent results. Keep in mind that while the hobby store may be 100 miles away, your computer puts you in touch with the Internet, and there are thousands of people out there who will ship the stuff to you (although hazardous stuff goes by ground shipment).

It is not necessary to prime before painting, although it is helpful (I use acrylic primer applied with an air brush). If painting wood or cardstock, an acrylic sealant is useful so that your model doesn’t absorb too much water and warp. In any case, it’s a good idea to seal the unpainted side of a wooden or cardstock model.

You can paint either before or after painting, at your option, but many glues will not adhere properly to a painted surface,

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Hi Ken

I think CTValleyRR meant to say in his last paragraph that “You can paint either before or after gluing, at your option…”

Painting some structures before you glue can give you much crisper deliniation between colours. For example if you are doing a frame house with siding and you want to make the corner posts and trim a different colour then painting first is a good idea. I.E. a structure like this:

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/361-291

CA glue will work with most painted surfaces but it has to be used sparingly since it dries rather glossy and most structures are painted in flat colours. In other words, keep it off the visible surfaces.

Priming both sides of wooden walls is a good idea to prevent warping but internal bracing is also very effective. Simply glue some square or rectangular stock to the inside of the walls before assembly . Pay attention to where you put the bracing so it doesn’t interfere with assembly, and if you are going to detail the interior try to figure out how to make the bracing look like it belongs there.

Good luck and have fun!

Dave

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Thanks everyone for taking the time to answer my newbe questions.

I do have on more question. I have a gallon of waterbase primer/sealer and stain blocker. Is that safe to use to prime the wood and card stock?

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Hi again Ken:

I don’t think using a water based primer is a good idea. The water in it may cause the warping that you are trying to prevent. It might also ruin the surface of the card stock.

Many people use plain old automotive spray primer in a rattle can. (In case you are not familiar with the term, it simply refers to the noise the spray can makes when you shake it). I understand that you can get primer pretty cheap at Walmart in the U.S. (I’m Canadian - I buy mine at Canadian Tire. Where else?[swg]).

Dave

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Thanks Dave. I think I have some cheap gray spray cans of auto primer that I was using on my 57 Chevy. I am surprised you don’t have Wal-Mart in Canada, I thought they were world wide.

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We have lots of Wal-Marts in Canada - far too many! I am not a particular fan of them because from what I have heard from employees at our local Wal-Mart they are not treated all that well. Apparently Wal-Mart is quite willing to stretch our labour laws in order to turn a profit. That doesn’t sit well with me! I have also found their check outs to be extremely slow on the few occassions when I have done business with them, and I have yet to encounter a happy salesperson.

Indeed they do have great prices, but I am willing to drive a little further and pay a little more for better service.

Makes me sound like a fussy old fart doesn’t it!

Dave

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Dave- there are lots of people that feel that way. We moved to East Texas from Southern Calif. In our little town you can see how Wal-Mart closed down all the small business. They do serve a purpose but I think they do a lot of harm. I shouldn’t complain, my wife has now worked for them for 11 years.

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Eh, paint / glue. What’s the difference? [:)]

Seriously, though, Ken, while it’s great to use stuff that you have lying around the house or that you can obtain easily at Wally World or a home improvement store, paint is one area where I’ve found that it doesn’t pay to cut corners. Much “hobby” product is just repackaged and marked up versions of stuff you can get elsewhere, a lot of it isn’t. There’s also almost always a tradeoff between cost and time: the more time you’re willing to take, the cheaper you can do it (trees is a great example).

If you’re talking about an outdoor sealant for pressure treated wood, well, it may be water-based, but it may n

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On using white glue to glue wood to plastic, or plastic to wood. It usually does not make a very good or strong bond.

Sometimes, I want to glue something WITHOUT a good bond. For instance, I may glue down a plastic structure onto a plywood or foam or homosote layout surface with good old Elmer’s. Holds good enough to hold it in place, but if I want to move it someday, the bond is weak enough I can usually move it without damage.

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Another source for many modeling supplies is craft stores, like Michaels and A.C. Moore. Yes, they are kind of “girly,” but they have craft paints, plaster cloth, balsa wood, glue, paint brushes, Envirotex for simulating water and other stuff we use in our hobby.

The hardware store, either big-box or old fashioned, is where I go for rattle-can spray paints. I use various rust and brown sprays for my brick structures. I prefer to spray paint before assembly, but it’s important to mask off the edges where parts will be glued together to keep them free of paint, or your glue joints will be weak.

I keep a stock of 1/8 inch square balsa strips. I use them to reinforce the corner joints of structures, both wood and plastic. Besides a stronger joint, it eliminates light leaks when I illuminate the interior of a building. It’s also a good thing to do on the edges of a roof.

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Thanks again everyone.

Unfortunately the nearest hobby/craft store is about 75 miles away. I am now making a lise for when we go to the big city :). In the mean time its Wally World. It is great living out in the sticks, but there are a few disadvantages.

Thanks again

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Again, Ken, for someone in your situation, ordering from the Internet may be the best solution. You can find just about anything you want. Try some of these dealers:

For just about anything related to MR, Walthers, the largest distributor in North America: http://www.walthers.com/

Since their prices are generally MSRP, try these lower cost retailers (these are my favorites; others can add theirs:

MB Klein: http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/default.asp

Trainworld On-Line: http://www.trainworldonline.com/

Tools and Specialty Products: Micro-Mark http://www.micromark.com/

For Paint Supplies: http://www.megahobby.com/Megahobby-plastic-model-paint-store.aspx (most of the other places sell paints, too).

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Thanks for the sights. I have been using Caboose Hobbies, but will be checking out the places you suggested.

It is just a little frustrating ordering something on line without looking at it in person. Like buying a new car without a test drive

Thanks again.

Ken

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Granted, for things like rolling stock and locos. But if you’re talking about paints and building supplies, it’s kind of hard to screw up.

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I guess you are right but I would like to see how green the grass is or how fine the gravel is as apposed to looking at a picture.