You could potensially fit a dogbone, but the return loops would eat a lot of space and possibly need a popup in the middle for access. So a donut-shape is probably the best bet.
Mmm - do we actually have a requirement that the layout must be a continuous run layout ? Kyle’s newest vision, given and druthers said “yard w/large engine servicing area”, not “continuous run”.
Agreed - in N-scale he would have a decent amount of space for a largish yard/engine terminal layout with adequate staging - like the Ozark lines yard/terminal layout in Andy Sperandeo’s “Guide to Freight Yards” - which fit in 6x12 feet with an extra 2x3 feet peninsula for the roundhouse area.
I’ve asked Kyle about that too - being able to fit in a 2x4 or 3x4 foot extension in this area would make more stuff possible.
Is it hard to find ? No harder than other engines. I checked walthers.com - they have both 0-8-0 switchers, 2-8-2 Mikados and 2-10-2 USRA heavies in C, B & Q colors.
It is easy enough to find Burlington freight cars too. Walthers list 85 different freight cars. Same on the passenger side - plenty of various kinds of cars.
And you have those cool Zephyr streamlined diesel motor units and gasoline powered doodlebugs.
Quite a few interesting things about the Burlington Route, whose slogan was “Everywhere West”.
Stuff I pointed out was 1915-1930 or so, not 1902. Some of the steam engines probably lasted past WW2.
Anyways - be that as it may - did you get those last couple of measurements of your room ?
Plan shows same thing as the illustration I made further up in the thread - about 3 1/2 foot from the far edge of turntable pit to rear wall of roundhouse.
Here is a closeup of the illustration I made of a minimum configuration with three round house stalls:
I was advised to leave 9" (half the pit diameter) between the turntable and the roundhouse and to space the tracks into the roundhouse with 10 degrees between the tracks.
I have no personal experience with modelling turntables and roundhouses - they eat up way too much space compared to what I have available for my own layout, and I am more fascinated by diesel engines than steam engines, anyways.
Are you saying that it isn’t necessary to leave as much as 9 inches of space between the edge of the turntable pit and the roundhouse door for this roundhouse/turntable combo - that there isn’t any interior stall dividers or anything like that which makes it necessary to have greater distance between the pit and the roundhous ?
From the 2008 Walthers catalog, page 439: the front of the roundhouse is located 11 15/16" from the center of the turntable. Given that the turntable diameter is 20" outside the pit, the front of the roundhouse is located 1 15/16" from the lip of the turntable pit. I hope this helps.
Actually, Stein, You can put the roundhouse as close as you want to the turntable edge. Half the pit length is a general rule of thumb I read years ago in the model press and I find it works pretty well when laying out a turntable and roundhouse. Especially when wanting to find the maximum space needed. What I really aim for is to have 2 inches center to center track distance at the roundhouse doors. Taking into account that the door frames are going to take some space, that should allow room for most locos to pass into the roundhouse. In my case, I generally don’t worry about the track angles (10 degrees for instance) because any setup I’ve ever built to completion has had a manual (by eye) index. They should be consistant however.
Given that, the wider the angle, the shorter the distance to the roundhouse from the pit needs to be. I think Don’s drawing is a little close and would require about another foot from what is shown (closer to 7’ x 7’ for the 3/4 roundhouse). Now, the Depth of the roundhouse and the length of the equipment will also affect the placements. If the roundhouse is Just 18" deep and it’s full of 4-8-8-4s, then we will need that 2"
That’s not strictly true unless one is planning to scratchbuild or significantly kitbash the roundhouse. Walthers and other roundhouses are built for specific angles and distances from the center of the pit. As I noted on another thread, this is why the 90’ Walthers turntable does not save quite as much space as one would hope vs. the 130’ TT if one is using one of the Walthers roundhouses. The center point of the pit stays the same, so the roundhouse doors must be farther from the edge of the pit with the 90’ TT to make the geometry line up.
Again, if one is willing to scratchbuild the roundhouse, it’s much more flexible.
Yes, the Walthers turntable is pre-indexed on 10 degree spacings. Their roundhouse is also built on 10 degree stall spacings, so in order for the track to align from the roundhouse to the turntable, the building must be placed as close as I previously stated. Here is a photo of a full size template for the turntable with rays spaced at 10 degrees. You will notice the rays align with the roundhouse floor sections as planned.
Thanks for all of the info so far. Does anyone know of good yard and engin terminals with a round house that would work great for a 12x8ft layout. I dont have to have a circit layout just a yard and engin terminal.
Don, That’s why I said I THINK it’s too close and encouraged a look at the templates. Couldn’t swear to it from lack of experience with the walther’s units. From a visual standpoint, it Is a little too close for my liking (personal preference here)… Here is a 1949 overhead of the one I plan to model (105’ TT).
Byron,
My post was aimed more At scratching than a pre-indexed unit (like the walthers). Please see the final paragraph in my post above.
Challenger, How are you planning to access the interior of this layout?? Even the lankiest kid (tall and thin) I’ve ever seen had at best about a 28" working reach. You have what I would call some pretty serious access problems especially on the right side of the layout 12x8 space. I would encourage you to look at Corey’s thread
as his space is 10x8. I’m just suggesting that you consider the pains of reaching over (to work) as well as constantly crawling under the layout to get to something. Remember Murpy’s golden train rule. It will NEVER derail or stall where you can easily reach it.
U-shaped layout, L-shaped layout or O-shaped layout. Challenger is not proposing an island layout is 12x8 foot - he is saying that the layout has to be contained within a footprint that is maximum size 12x8 foot, with the right 8 foot side and the rightmost 4 feet of both the bottom and top sides up against walls.
Actually - according to the discussions earlier in this thread Kyle has about 8 1/2 x 13 feet available, see overview of room below: Overview of room:
It is good general advice But not particularily applicable here. Kyle (Challenger) wants an engine terminal/yard layout in H0 scale - he can live w/o continuous run.
So an U-shaped layout about 2 feet wide with an opening towards the left, possibly with a 2x2 peninsula on the inside o
I hadn’t read everything in complete detail so admittedly, I missed a few details. I do remember shape discussion early on however. Didn’t know that continuous run was something Kyle was willing to give up, only that he wanted a large engine terminal and yard.
I was hoping to point him toward an O shaped layout possibly with an extension (with his parent’s permission) along the top of that cabinet row. IT, would be the perfect place for a rather large stub ended yard, having the ladder run basically on the right side near where the alcove is. The area suggested previously for the turntable would then work if it were flipped 180 degrees and with sime fitting, a 90 degree or so roundhouse is workable. From there, a continuous couple loops around the remaining space in the “O” would provide some railfanning type operation on the layout space, complete with Nebraska’s towering mountains ([:-^]) or at least rolling hills on the western end. Could be the best of all 3 worlds and not too daunting to build.
I designed a layout for a freind several years back that offered tons of operation possiblilty, a smaller yard, no roundhouse (I know Kyle wants one) that would probably fit his space. With the additional space above the cabinets (if you ((Kyle)) can swing it), the engine facility could be worked in. IF anyone is interested in looking it over for ideas, I’ll dig it up and post a screenshot of the drawing. May even still have a few photos of the layout.
If you have access to a computer, then you need to perform one the basics of model railroading: research. If you type “union pacific” (or any other railroad you are interested in) in to your browser, you can obtain a wealth of information relative to the road you selected, including its smaller engine terminals. Further, in order to run Big Boys into North Platte, you would have to modify history since the 4000’s rarely, if ever ran to North Platte. The UP’s position was to let the Big Boys handle Sherman Hill, then turn the eastbounds over to the Challengers for the flatland running. The 4000’s were generally restricted to Salt Lake-Cheyenne.
There were literally thousands of smaller engine terminals on each railroad in the country during the 40’s and 50’s, so you shouldn’t have a problem finding a good UP terminal to model.
Also, DonZ and others are correct: just because one wants the turntable to look a certain way doesn’t mean it will end up that way without serious modification as the geometry imposed by the table’s length will determine correct track spacing and distance from table to building.
Correction. Of course you have a computer. What I meant to say and didn’t complete the sentence (old man syndrome) is you should have access to a computer you are not liklely to get kicked off of, since once you start this process, you will be amazed at how much info there is out there. You won’t want to shut it down. Try this for starters:
Evanston Wyoming Roundhouse
To see an aerial shot of the complex today, use Google Earth or Microsoft’s TerraServer and type in the location you want to see. Try also Historic Aerials. Their selection of areas is limited, but the images go back to the 30’s and 40’s.
The capnets are 2ft deep and area at the bottom of your drawing is off limits. I may be able to do some sweet talking to my parents and see if I can get 1-2ft to have it stick out that way. I did talk to them about the room above the garage and they said NO.
