I was just reading on another site and saw where Amtrak has just released more clearly defined photography rules as a result of the NYP case.
Here is the link:
That’s better.
They allow photos on platforms immediately before and after you get on or off a train.
If you’ve ever pulled out a camera after getting off a train at Union Sta DC - that’s a change. They will hassle you faster than you can blink - and always have.
Those rules seem pretty reasonable to me.
As I commented in an above link, “Restricted Area”, Platforms unless you have a ticket???
I see nothing wrong with not allowing people on the platform unless they are ticketed passengers or RR Staff.
Amtrak is financed by OUR tax dollars. For our dollars we should at least be able to take a photograph and enjoy our hobby. Maybe if all the members of NRHS, subscribers to Trains, and other organizations wrote their congressmen and ask why we can watch trains from platforms it would get some attention. Perhaps funding cuts are needed to get rid of some of these bad decision makers !
I doubt that there is anyone in here that is more offended by the idiotic paranoid security that has been inflicted on our society since 9/11, but I see nothing wrong with restricting access to the platforms to people who are actually getting on or off the train. There is no reason to have non passengers interfering with boarding.
I disagree. First off, most if not all responsible railfans, wouldn’t interfer with passengers getting on or off trains. Second, most of the security people, think they make the laws, not enforce them. Third, said security usually doesn’t have the intelligence to make a proper security agent, and are usually a joke. And last but not certainly not least, as stated previously, Amtrak is supported with tax dollars, from the public sector. The biggest threat to freedom in this country, comes from Homeland Security. I doubt if any of these idiots could hold an honest job, that’s why they work for the government.
R. Staller
I think you have to consider individual situations. Amtrak’s legitmate interest in passenger flow concerns on platforms at Union Station in Chicago is different than those at Wolf Point, Montana. The same policy shouldn’t cover both situations.
I share your contempt of the government’s “security theatre” activities, however.
DakGuy:
Actually, your comparison is self adjusting. While I am not familiar with Wolf Point, MT, smaller stations do not have enclosed platforms. I took this picture standing at the fence between the Amtrak platform (visible on the far side of the inbound train) and the parking lot beside the station in Charlotte, NC. In Salisbury, NC there is no platform, just a gate in the fence that the train stops beside.
This particular train is the “Piedmont” which is owned by North Carolina DOT.
Has anyone ever heard of Amtrak enforcing this policy at a small station? This policy is merely a lever to use at the large stations or, perhaps special circumstances at smaller locations as needed.
That argument that Amtrak is taxpayer supported, so we should have all kinds of access is lame. The Navy should provide public access to aircraft carriers?
Restricting access to train platforms in larger stations is not uncommon and has been routine for years and predates 9 eleven and even Amtrak. The need for space for entraining and detraining passengers, train servicing, and, at one time, head end traffic. So the fewer people on a platform the safer and more efficient the operation. And if there is two or more trains in a short time, it is more essential for the operation to keep uneccessary people out of the way. But why can’t a railfan get some kind of clearence from the station master for a one time once opportunity to take a picture? Or for any other photography for that matter? .
I think the NY Penn case in the original post was about a photographer who had not gotten the some kind of clearance Henry asks for, whom Amtrak police had detained, and who claimed he was photographing because Amtrak had advertised a photography contest. I haven’t read the contest rules, but the impression I get is that there was no mention about getting permission to photograph in public areas, and if he had been able to get down to the platform I assume he did so by just walking down the steps, and not by jumping any velvet rope or more substantial barrier.
There are some folks who do get clearance. Recently in Philadelphia a couple had their wedding photos taken at SEPTA’s Broad St Subway Walnut-Locust station. I assume they dotted their t’s and crossed their i’s beforehand, but it’s also possible that bride, groom and photographer just plunked tokens in the turnstile and got in and out before the police could react. If that’s the case then all the terrorists have to do is dress up in tuxedos and flowing white gowns and our country is doomed.
I knew this thread would eventually sink into the abyss of our collective “terrorist” hysteria.
A few months ago my granddaughter, a fifth grade student, came to me to tell me that she had learned in history class about some men who had flown some planes into big buildings.
How long will it take us to figure out that we are not in constant daily danger of the world being brought to an end by a few primitives with box cutters and personal explosive devices.
You stand a much greater chance of being killed in a car accident than in a terrorist attack.
The Amtrak rules about only allowing ticketed passengers on the platforms are about safety around the trains and free flowing crowd control, not terrorism.
So platforms at Chicago Union Station would be considered a restricted area while the platforms at Naperville and Springfield, IL would not be, being open to public access. At least until someone gets all worked up about Homeland Security.
Amtrak’s concern for passenger flow? Amtrak trains arriving in Chicago have only a quarter of the volume of faster alighting and walking Metra commuters. As it is, the pillars in the middle of the platform are far more of an obstacle to passenger flow than a photographer. I would imagine the NJT and MTA trains still carry at least twice as many passengers as anything Amtrak runs into Penn Station.
I doubt that Amtrak will let you ON the platform at any station of any size unless you are a ticketed passenger, but in small stations there are areas near the platforms with a clear view of the platforms from which you can take pictures to your heart’s content.
Large stations where the platforms are indoors or in a weather protected enclosure would, of course, be a different story.
If you need to photograph on the platform, contact the management of the facility, explain the need, promise to be brief, offer to sign a liability waiver, and promise to comply with any restrictions they impose. You may find they are willing to co-operate.
Harvey, what I think is that at large, busy stations where a ticket is required to enter upon a platform, or any similar station set up, you will not have the chance to take a picture. But if you are at a rural station or other station where a ticket is not required to enter upon the platform, you probably are not as likely to be challenged. Not that it is any more or less legal, just not as likely to be challenged.
“Photography and video recording within restricted areas are prohibited. Individuals found in a restricted area will be subject to investigation and possible arrest and seizure of photography and/or video recording equipment may occur pursuant to the arrest. This policy applies in all circumstances, including where Amtrak may be promoting a photography contest or event.”
Restricted areas include but are not limited to the following:
- Platforms (ticketed passengers are exempt)
- Crew and Employee Work Areas
- Maintenance Facilities
- Unoccupied Trains and Engines
- Office Areas
- Employee Elevators
- Baggage/Delivery Areas
- Commissaries
- Right of Way and Track Areas
- In service train cars
Considering 4, 9 & 10 what’s left to photograph? Try arguing the difference of “within” and “of” with a security guard. 
As I commented before, the chance of a terrorist being discouraged by these rules is far smaller than the chance of a photographer getting a picture of a terrorist. Would be interesting to see one study justifying these rules. I suspect they are made because they are easy to make and gives the police something to do. With cameras on most cell phones, I doubt the police can see a small fraction of the picture taking done in areas sensitive to national security.