New to the train world picked my kid up a Lionel train set quite awhile back. It’s a simple set with cheap little plastic trains and a simple little steam engine. Well he wanted a Union Pacific engine so I bought one off ebay and this thing is way bigger than the rest of his set, fits on the track and his cars hook up however. It appears the transformer for the cheap one doesn’t put out the power needed to run the two engine Lionel Union Pacific GP-9 Diesel Engine #6-18817. What do I need to power this engine up as far as a transformer? The light come on but thats about the size of it. Looks like I’m headed into a new level of train playing. What other things should I expect? Are there codes or numbers that designate the level of the Lionel trains so you can tell which type you are getting?
Sounds like your new UP diesels are scale size, while the starter set you bought are what’s called “traditional scale.”
Starter sets generally come with 40 watt transformers, which, as you’ve found out, don’t do much more than power the set that they came with. As you’ve guessed, you’ll have to upgrade to a bigger transformer.
Lionel makes a transformer called the CW-80. This outputs 80 watts of power & will probably be enough to power that UP GP-9 set. K-Line also makes a transformer that outputs 120 Watts, but I’m not sure what it’s called. Others here can certainly tell you the K-Line transformer model number.
As far as other things to expect, well, that’s entirely up to you. There’s a lot of stuff out there in this hobby these days; the times have never been better for O gauge. There are command control systems that let you control the train by remote control. There are track systems that let you build layouts where the track almost looks real (I mean, there’s a third rail in there, after all).
Your starter set trans should be able to move your GP-9.
Here are some points to consider.
Make sure your track is clean and you have good electrical conections.
Make sure the engines run/program switch(if present) is in ‘Run’
Some engines start in neutral, cucle power on and off.
Re-read your directions, if not available contact Lionel.
If you are still having trouble let us know exactly what you are doing and what is happening, or you can take it to a service center and have it checked out.
What can you expect?
Walk around throttles, 386 computers inside your engine, digital sounds, a higher level of detail, unbelievable operating cars and Acc.and 4 major toy train importers.
Just to name a few.
To get started go to a local hobby shop that deals in trains.
Pick up some catalogs from the different companies.
If I were you I would upgrade to a bigger transformer. Even if the one you have works you will want to get more stuff and will have to eventually get more power. There are a lot of nice people here on this site who can help you with information. I’m fairly new at this myself and have learned a lot here. Look at the web sites for the train makers like Lionel, Mikes Train House, Atlas and others. Get catalogs and read them a lot! They have a lot of information in them. Put together a small toolbox of tools for your trains like screwdrivers, pliers, wire, cleaners and clean rags. Use them to keep your stuff clean and they will operate great almost forever. Buy a book at a hobby shop that tells how to maintain your trains. It will be a lifesaver. K-Line has a book like this that tells all about how to maintain and repair Lionel trains but you can use it for almost any brand trains.
When you say they aren’t compatible on the same track I’m assuming you mean I can’t run the two together. With that in mind I’ll try and explain where we are at in a little more detail.
We have the little starter set with the steam engine and 5-6 rolling stock behind, this set up runs fine. We purchased a lot of extra Lionel 0-27 track which is the same as the starter set from what I can tell. We just purchased the UP engine via ebay and it is in like new condition so I’m assuming there is nothing wrong with this train. It appears to have two engines and I think the sale add also stated this. It also has lights and lighted little number areas along with a horn. It does have a run switch on the bottom also. We do not have an established track set up at this time so we put together a small oval 3’ by 6’ roughly and set the new diesel U.P. engine on the track by itself and the lights come on but the train doesn’t go. It acts as if it doesn’t have enough juice to actually run the motors. The transformer is a simple little slide bar that activates it. There aren’t any other options on the transformer short of forward and reverse. The transformer is a Lionel Hobby Transformer #4065. 0-18 VDC, with a maximum output of 5.5 VA, at least that’s what it says on the top of the transformer.
There are several new Lionel Transformers on ebay with the following add found below. This add states it has 0-18 volts as well which It looks like mine already has? It states this 0-18 is variable AC and from what I can tell the DC is what runs the track. I’m no electrician either as you can tell. Thanks for any and all advice thus far and in the future. I just don’t want to buy this transformer and find that isn’t the issue. Here’s the add on the transformer for sale.
5.5 watts!!! YIKES! No wonder you’re not moving the train! 5.5 VA is about 5.5 watts, correct guys? (V x A = W?)
That thing doesn’t put out enough to light more than a few buildings, let alone run a twin-motored engine. Get yourself either the LIONEL BW-80, CW-80, or an older #1033, 1034, or MPC #4090. These transformers are all readily available on Ebay. The first two are rated at 80 watts RMS, while the others were rated at 90 watts. But by today’s rating methods are more like 72 watts RMS.
I’m not aware of a twin-motored GP-9, unless it is a starter-set quality engine with truck-mounted CAN motors in platic trucks. If it is one of those, it won’t require a huge amount of power, but certainly more than 5.5 watts! Go for the better transformer. The best two things your son needs is a good engine, and a good transformer.
Good luck, and don’t be shy about asking more questions!
Cory, you do understand that Lionel’s modern engines run on AC current, not DC. Two suggestions:
Take your GP 9 to a hobby shop with a test track to see if it runs on the test track. (Or if someone on this forum lives near you, I’m sure they would put it on their track to test it out.)
DC current is used mainly for accesories, not to power the track. the 0-18 volts is the power to the engine.
Like Buckeye, the first thing that jumps out at me is the 0-18VDC, as he said the standard equipment is all AC with only some of the small starter sets being DC. Also, if the engines are scale sized the O27 curves might present a derailing problem, you won’t know till you get the train running.
The best suggestion is to find another local enthusiest to test the unit, some dealers could be a bit touchy about testing a unit not purchased from them.
Also, don’t write off the starter engine, it should be a simple conversion to AC if it isn’t already able to run on AC.
Problem solved! I love problem solving and you guys have been great help. Here is what I found. I decided to go into step by step problem solving starting with cleaning and see if the track was dirty or the wheels were dirty based on one of the comments. While cleaning the wheels I noticed that the front set would turn all the way around but the back set would only turn a little ways then stop and you could go back the other way and then they would stop again. So I marked one of the wheels and turned it around and it would make exactly one revolution before stopping which told me there was a problem in a gear somewhere. So I turned slowly checking every gear when it was at the half way point and low and behold I found a small piece of debris in one gear, I took a small needle and cleaned it out and it runs fine now. The directional control is something new for me but I think we are figureing this out as well.
Thanks for walking me through all this and be prepared, more questions are on the way. In fact let’s start off with one now. Sounds like O scale track must be larger than 0-27 correct? So far this train makes the corners on the 0-27 fine pulling the all his little rolling stock. The odd thing is that the new diesel engine looks like it’s half again as big as all the starter set rolling stock. Is this normal for Lionel or do I need to check for some type of train scale when I purchase more rolling stock. It could be that I’m just used to the steam engine being about the size of a box car and this diesel is twice as long as the box car and maybe that’s normal.
You guys are great and this is getting funner by the minute. In fact I have an old insulated shed out back in a field that I’m thinking I might move up closer to the house and do a little work on and start my established track.
O Gauge is availible in larger radiuses than 0-27. Your Geep dwarfing your
0-27 rolling stock is normal, but if scale fidelity is a concern, look for items advertised as “O scale” or “1/48”.
Hooketrout,
Remmeber that while you do have traditional O-27 and Scale 3-rail equipment making different sizes that steam era rolling stock was a lot smaller than moder rolling stock.
I have two sets of stuff and I just run the cars an locos together that look right.
Cory, the box for your GP9 claims “‘O’ and 027 gauge”. This leads me to suspect that it is actually a little undersized.
“O27” can refer to the sharpness of the curves, but also to the rail profile. O27 has smaller rails than O (also called “O31”), closer to a realistic size. You don’t have to abandon O27 to get gentler curves: O27-profile track is made in O42, O54, and O72 sizes. And it is not hard to find Marx O34 track, although it is no longer manufactured.
Prototype: The engine / car / thing in the real world that is being modeled.
Scale: Refers to the proportion between the dimensions of the model & the real thing. True O scale items are 1 / 48 the size of the prototype. That’s equivalent to 1’ on the prototype measuring 1/4" on the model.
Gauge: The distance between the inside surfaces of the rails. On the prototype in the US, this is 4’ 8 1/2"; in O gauge, it’s 1 1/4".
Traditional Size: What we call “traditional size” toy trains all run on O gauge track, but are smaller than 1/48 the size of the prototype. Some are closer to 1/64, which is the size of S scale trains. Unlike S scale trains, however, these still run on O gauge track. Your starter set rolling stock is in this category.
TMCC: This is short for Train Master Command Control. This is a system from Lionel for remotely controlling trains. Engines that have TMCC installed in them have a Program/Run switch somewhere, generally on the underside. These trains can be run in “Command Mode” or “Conventional Mode” (see below).
DCS: Short for “Digital Command System.” A competing command control system from MTH (Mike’s Train House). Only MTH PS2 engines are equipped with this command system. I’m not familiar with DCS so I won’t comment any further.
Conventional Mode: Triain speed is controlled by how much voltage is applied to the track. For A/C powered trains with a reverse unit (aka an E unit) and TMCC, you reverse direction by momentarily interrupting the power circuit. Trains cycle through four states: Forward / Neutral / Reverse / Neutral, etc. All model trains can be run in this mode.
Command Mode: A constant 18 V is applied to the track & the engine has a computer which listens for commands on a carrier signal (the method of transmission varies between TMCC & DCS). When the train detects a command
Cory,
Before you give up on the 027 track, you can make a very nice layout with it. My may layout is 027 and a few places 042 in 027 profile. Check out our web page by clicking on the web icon below.
If I may expand on Tony’s remarks and pick a few nits:
“Scale: …True O scale items are 1 / 48 the size of the prototype…” For the US–European trains, like ETS, are made to 1/45 and 1/43.5.
“Conventional Mode: …Trains cycle through four states: Forward / Neutral / Reverse / Neutral, etc…” Some cycle between forward and reverse only, no neutral.
“…All model trains can be run in this mode.” But not the cheaper DC type that you got in the starter set.
“Curve Nomenclature: …Other diameters are measured from cen[t]er rail to center rail. So an O54 curve has a diameter of 54 inches, center rail to center rail…” The radius of O27-profile O54 track (to the center rail) is 26 3/8 inches, or 52 3/4 inches diameter on centers. O42 is 20 1/4 and 40 1/2. O72 is 35 1/4 and 70 1/2. O34 is 15 3/4 and 31 1/2. So all are close to their nominal diameter measured across the ties.
“Your GP-9 sounds like it’s a command equipped engine…” I don’t see any evidence of that.
