New Chicago to Quad Cities Amtrak line could draw 111,000 riders

Trains Magazine General Discussion
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The Associated Press January 8, 2008
Study: Ill. Amtrak line could draw 111K
By MICHAEL TARM

CHICAGO – Train feasibility studies don’t normally elicit much excitement from casino executives like Bill Renk.

But an Amtrak report released this week gives casino operators in Illinois plenty of reason to smile, concluding that a proposed passenger-train route between Chicago and the Quad Cities could carry 111,000 riders a year.

Many of those riders could be Chicago gamblers heading to casinos along the Mississippi River, Renk, vice president for sales and marketing at the Jumer’s Casino Rock Island, said Tuesday.

“We’re very much delighted,” Renk said. “What this would do is put us in a good position to expose Chicagoland to what the Quad Cities have to offer.”

There’s also good news for longtime advocates of a Chicago-Quad Cities line who feared the project might be too pricey.

The upbeat study estimates costs of upgrading existing track for passenger-train use at between $14 million and $23 million – lower than earlier estimates of around $30 million. State operating costs would run about $6 million a year, it says.

Considering ongoing wrangling over funding for Chicago mass transit, the more modest the price tag for the Amtrak project the better, said Tim Schlittner, an aide for U.S. Rep. Phil Hare, a Rock Island Democrat.

“We have to fight for every dollar,” he said. “We would want to do things as price effective as possible.”

Some critics, though, said Amtrak’s cost estimates aren’t credible.

“These estimates are almost always lowballed,” said Jim Tobin of National Taxpayers United of Illinois. “We’ve got more transportation than we can maintain already. I think they ought to take of care of what they have first.”

The Chicago-Quad Cities line isn’t the only Amtrak expansion proje

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Interesting that casinos are backing this proposal to get Chicagoans to go 3-1/2 hours west to a casino when there are 2 in NW Indiana only 45 miles± away. Are they hoping to ca$h in on the success of Amtrak’s Atlantic City runs?

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This is very, very cool for Illinois.

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With no deliberate offense intended towards our neighbors in NE Indiana, I know lots of folks who simply won’t travel to your neck of the woods due to (1) perceived really bad neighborhoods where the casinos are located and/or (2) the hassle of driving on the Skyway or 294/90/94 to get to and from there…many would prefer the security of the Quad Cities and the perceived easier ride (for those of you who don’t know the area, it IS possible to sit in traffic in the area for more than ninety minutes and I have personally done so for two plus hours getting around the southern tip of Lake Michigan in the traffic).

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Sorry, but have you noticed that the state government in Indiana couldn’t care less about rail passenger service? The trains to Michigan don’t stop in Indiana any more than required because they won’t provide any support. Were the state interested, some trips with convenient schedules for all of the casinos along the lake (most of which are in sight of the tracks) could probably be run. It wouldn’t even have to be Amtrak–any service could also serve as a commuter schedule.

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OK I admit that I am not an expert when it comes to Quad Cities casinos. However is there anything about these casinos that make them better than the ones that are along the Fox river in Aurora or Elgin? Or the ones along the Des Plaines river in Joliet? I just don’t see why someone would ride a train for three and a half hours to go to a riverboat casino that is not much different than the ones that could be driven to in less than an hour.

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It’s recreation and entertainment. Same reason why some might travel past one very nice and convenient vacation spot to get to another a couple of hundred miles down the road.

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The big news all around with Amtrak seems to be increased ridership. Total passengers was up by over a million people this past year to 25.8mil.

A little closer to the proposed line, the Hiawatha (Milwaukee-Chicago) has seen ridership increase by a little less than 100,000 in the last two years up to 624,000.

Even better seems to be that there is true bi-partisan support for Amtrak in congress now. Also public groups that have been working to keep the remaining rail service from being taken away are now starting to ask for increased service and more routes.

It’s still going to be hard going though, and it could get far better or far worse depending on what changes happen in DC come November.

Cheers!

~METRO

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Carl,

What does Indiana’s lack of funding for a Michigan train have to do with people from Illinois driving to a casino in Indiana? Maybe I’m missing something. What rail line goes within walking distance of the casinos in Indiana?

I was under the impression that the state of Indiana funded the last interurban still in service in the country.

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Both the NS and the EJE run right next to the East Chicago/Gary casinos. I am not sure about Blue Chip in Michigan City though. Maybe Amtrak should partner up with the new casino in New Buffalo? I hear it is quite the place. As for the state of Indiana not funding rail, I could not agree more. Adding a couple of round trips between Chicago and Indianapolis I think would do well in the grand scheme of things. I don’t thing that the Monon sub would need to much money to make it work, although a couple of CTC 261 islands would help. But alas, the state of Indiana would rather have you drive I65, which seems to close every time there is a snow or rain event. In fact it was closed this last week from the rain storms we had.[sigh]

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I calculate that the taxpayers will subsidize the casinos to the tune of $8,350,000 dollars per year figured as follows.

Track rehab $20 million at 20% capital recovery is $4,000,000 per year

Operating cost $6,000,000 per year

Ticket revenue 111,000/2 at $30 round trip $1,650,000 per year

Loss absorbed by taxpayers $8,350,000 per year

This is enough to make me sick!!!

Mac

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When the Rock Island could do Rock Island to La Salle St in 3’ to 3’15" this was a viable service. You could have breakfast in the diner (it was decent food with good service), spend 8 hours shopping in downtown Chicago, have dinner in the diner and be home to watch the 10 o’clock news.

The proposed routes won’t offer anywhere near as fast a trip, I’d guess 4 hours would be tops. I don’t think shopping on State Street is anything near what it was 37 years ago either.

What I think might have a chance at working is perhaps a two or three times a week round trip, with a package deal for a decent hotel in Chicago which would leave time to do the “Magnificent Mile”, plays, museums, etc. On the Quad Cities end an overnight (or weekend) for the Casinos or other things. For example Davenport has a nice river front stadium for their minor league team. I’d do that for a baseball game rather than any major league park.

I certainly can understand why the big city folks would head west to the casinos on the Mississippi rather than fight the traffic to get to NW Indiana and back.

If it could be done like the days of yesteryear and park the Pullman right next to the boat it just might be a real winner.

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Hmm… Federal, State and Local taxes collect trillions of dollars a years in taxes. $8.5 million/yr = Drop in Bucket.

Track rehab requires materials and labor. Creating/gathering materials plus manpower needed to rehab tracks = JOBS! (people with income)

Running/maintaining trains plus supporting personal = JOBS! (people with income)

People with income spend money. They buys clothes, food, vacations, houses, cars, etc. Their ability to purchase things causes other people to have jobs.

Conclusion: Speading money helps the economy.

As for taxpayer money “subsidizing” private businesses, there’s nothing new in that department. It has happened before, it will always happen, there’s no government in the world that doesn’t do it, so I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it.

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The point I was trying to make is that Illinois has supported Amtrak trains within the state and encouraged studies such as the one for the Quad Cities. Indiana won’t do that. It wouldn’t even keep an Amtrak service going toward Louisville–and probably not for Indianapolis, either, were it not for Beech Grove.

I strongly suspect that the state isn’t offering much in the way of monies toward South Shore’s expansion plans. And as for killing what is already well used, they’d probably like to quit funding it, but nobody has accused them of political suicidal tendencies.

As has been stated, you can see the casinos from existing Amtrak trains–a well-positioned shuttle bus would probably work, if there were stations to stop at. Don’t know if I’d want to walk to them (as if I’d go to a casino anyway!), but it didn’t look too bad in those particular places.

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Merrily,

Your logic is what gave us multi trillion dollar debt. Lets stop doing stupid stuff.

Mac

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Wolverine trains: 352,355 stops at Michigan City and Hammond -Whiting, IN

Wolverine trains: 350,353 stops at Hammond-Whiting, IN

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Who is “us”?

While you chastize Merrily for his logic, you could brush up on your reading-for-meaning skills. If you read the story before jumping to your conclusions, you’d see hauling gamblers was included only as one possible scenario. Your cloudy figures assume incorrectly that half of the 110,000 riders will be casino patrons. Nowhere does the story even hint at that number. Plus, speaking of stupid stuff, you apply cost figures for both track rehab and operating cost at 100 percent yet only apply 50 percent of the ticket revenue to derive your flawed result.

I see most of the passengers originating in the Quad Cities and coming to Chicag

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Our national debt is the result of a “conservative” policy of increase spending while cutting taxes. When you cut your revenue source, taxes in this case, you have to borrow. So the debt is the result of the government borrowing money and then the ever increasing interest required to repay the initial loan.

Mac, what do you think of the billions of dollars that just up and disappeared or were wasted on oversized contracts to companies like Haliburton or Bechtel in Iraq who shortchanged our soldiers and built practically nothing over there? My point is complaining that our taxes are being “wasted” on a $8.5 million per year rail service is less than a penny compared to the wastefulness that has occurred in the Iraq War. Regardless of whether it was a justified war or not, there has been an abundance of wasteful spending and money that has just up and disappeared. There are bigger fish to fry than fretting over rail service to a casino. At least we the American people can use the train (as in ride it). We really can’t use the world’s largest and most expensive embassy we just built in Bagdad.

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The study also doesn’t estimate a fare price, but Rumler estimates a round-trip ticket to the Quad Cities from Chicago would be around $30.

Tomorrow morning it will cost a senior $38.50 round trip to Chicago from Galesburg. Maybe the casino is going to kick in a few bucks.

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Poppa

Ridership was stated in the article as 111,000. I rounded to 110,000 for ease of calculation. I assumed that ridership counts would be boardings, i.e. a round trip counts as two rides, so we have 55,000 round trips. Ticket price quoted in the article was $30 round trip. I can count.

Merrilly,

So it is not that the congress can not control spending we are just under taxed. Sorry that is a Barbara Striesand tale. Protecting us from foreign enemies is an enumerated duty of the Federal Government. Susidizing casino operators is not. Playing trains is not. We need a lot less welfare for the rich.

Mac

Mac