I’m looking for brass strip in the .025 -or so- thick, and .100-.125 wide. K&S only goes as narrow as 1/2 inch wide. does anyone know of any sources? My searches turn up nothing. Thanks. Dan
Dan,
I run into the same problem. But I needed them 1/4’’ wide. Thickness was about the same as You. I spent some time searching and could not find anything.
I wound up making My own. In my case, I did not need any real long. I went with a K&S Brass sheet .010 x4x10. Using My XURON Ecthing cutting shears, I was able to cut 1/4’’ 4’’ long strips that came out really good. There was a slight bow to them, but was able to lay it on piece of steel stock I have and with a brass jewlers hammer was able to take the bow out to make it extremely flat. I then used My right hand bend flat nose needle nose pliers to make a couple of 90 degree bends. I then used silver bearing solder paste to solder a 1/16" brass c-channel to the bottom of the 1/4’’ sheet brass. So it would have a wider edge to CA them to three Pewter low boys I made. Cutting the sheet stock with those shears was real easy…making it truly 1/4’’ was the harder part. But it worked out great.
The bulkhead on the low boys, with the name on it, is what I made out of the brass sheet: You don’t say what You are doing…but It did work for Me…
I also would be interested to know if there is a source for 1/8’’ wide brass strip…that’s about what You need I believe. I’ll havn’t tried to cut one that small yet! Would probably curl up more.
Good Luck! [:D]
Frank
My LHS stocks K&S Flat Brass Bar in 1/64”, 1/32” and 1/16” thick by 1/32” to 1” wide.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11VnHyHEF-rFhlP8gQSoBmX81e2H9gFTs/view?usp=sharing
The link is to my Google Drive, couldn’t figure out how to post a PDF. It’s a K&S PDF listing what they sell. I couldn’t figure out how to rotate it so you will have to do it from Acrobat.
Mel
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
My Model Railroad
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
Mel’s pdf converted to a pic
I get a sheet and have a friend with a band saw that he has a fine tooth bi-metal blade in cut it. Then I just dress the edge with a file. A nice bench top band saw is near the top of my wish list for shop tools right now
Now that has to be hard to do with thin sheet and small width. Must be a pretty good liquid feed band saw. I know I can do it on My scroll saw with thicker stock and a wider piece…but I needed thinner, which probably would need a thinner blade and steel jig to hold something that small…the shears worked ok for Me.
Thanks for the heads up Mel…I remember getting some yrs. ago, I was just looking in the wrong places. I should have looked directly at the K&S site instead of a supplier. Not all supplier’s carry a MFG’ers complete product list.
Take Care! [:D]
Frank
Thanks for the replies, gents. Frank, I love the fleet of trucks and equipment, especially the lowboy.
Mel, you got me on the right track. I found the size I can use from an online source, after checking with my LHS who can’t get it.
I want to build this, in HO:
The external braces are wood, but I want to use brass so they won’t get broken through the years. The small cross braces could be 1/64 x 3/32. At 25 braces with 6 pieces for the cross braces… I cant see me hand shearing 150 pieces! I could use wood or styrene of I couldnt find brass, but looks like brass it is. Dan
Dan,
Thanks for the kudo’s…I’ll have to take a photo with all the lowboys together. You know if You do not want to use brass, which You’ll have to either use solder or CA to assemble, You can look at Plastruct shapes. They come in all different sizes…angles, tees, I-beams, c-channel, H-columns etc. They are styrene and ABS plastic, which I assemble with their Plastic Weld. I made this add-on for the Transload complex with all Plastruct shapes…My own design:
Interesting building…the bracing really makes that building You want to build.
Good Luck, in Your project! [:D]
Frank
EDIT: I should add, that it is extremely strong and is removeable…brass 1/16’’ rods CA’ed to the bottom of the H-columns, that go into holes in the foundation. Wires for LED lighting goes down a 1/8’’ brass tube also CA’ed to the backside of the H-column below the base underneath layout.
I count 26 braces, and that’s only on one side. Regardless of what material you use, you’re still going to have to cut it to size. Make a jig for each piece, then mass produce them. You’ll also want a fixture in which they can be held while you do the soldering.
From the photo, I count only five pieces for the bracing: two horizontal crossmembers, with a pair of diagonals forming the “Z”, and the main diagonal, between the ground and the structure’s wall - are you including the upright members in the wall, to which they’re attached? If so, soldering is fine, but if I’m missing the location of that sixth piece, and it’s not the upright, how do you plan to attach the braces to the structure?
I’m also curious as to what was used to sheath the prototype, and what you’re planning to use to represent it.
Wayne
I was wondering myself. Looks like horizontal planking. I would have said shiplap, but I think the grooves would have shown.
A VERY neat building.
I rather think there’s some kind of gigantic opening on the other end. Being as there sort of HAS to be.
Ed
I’ve been looking for more information, but about all I have found is that the structure was part of the area’s lumbering history, and that it housed a large crane. I’m guessing, but perhaps it was a clearing house for lumber distribution to area lumberyards (dealers).
The “large crane” bit puzzles me, though: if it spanned the width of the structure, it must have been of fairly robust construction, leading me to question the use of wood for the exterior bracing: was the crane runway and its supports also wood? Judging by the spacing of the braces, it might well have been so. A structural steel runway, with steel supports, would likely have need only half as many.
The prototype was apparently 500’ long, so the HO scale model of it will be about 5’9" in length.
My GERN Industries…
…is about 6’7" long, so the Crane Shed model is perfectly do-able for a layout. However, GERN is serviced by three sidings, two, of which have dual roles, and can accept various types of cars on those tracks, so it’s a great traffic generator.
The crane shed, from what can be seen in the photo, must have been serviced from either the unseen side, or, more likely, the unseen end. Since it’s going on a model railroad, I have to assume that it was rail-served.
Whether that service was by a single track or multiple ones, I’d suggest building the model as a semi-low-relief structure, with the serviced end fully modelled, and the full length too, but with the back of the structure against the backdrop and tapering narrower and narrower towards the unseen end (the end shown in the prototype photo).
I did that with GERN Industries (the modelled portion represents about a third of what I imagined the overall length to be, and a much larger portion, the under-Lake-Erie-flux-mines, are not modelled at a
Since it is a craneway, why not use a… craneway?
Craneway1 by Edmund, on Flickr
I’ve seen several good-sized steel warehouses and mill buildings with enclosed craneways. Sometimes the braces were left open as in your photo, other times enclosed. Imagine these exposed craneways being sheathed, as in this photo at Altoona:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lrmyers/14501424977/in/album-72157629091837684/
Below, I’ve propped some Walthers crane rail braces along side their rolling mill building to give you some scale.
My car shop uses a partially enclosed, roofed craneway:
In this case the bracing is much simplified.
The Walthers crane kits can be found fairly reasonably and they should be pretty sturdy. Many of their kits come with decent roof trusses which could be used as bracing such as you seek.
Otherwise, have you considered making a pattern out of styrene then a silicone mould from that? Then pour as many copies from two-part resin and they will all be identical. You could add rivet plates (Tichy) and gussets at the joints for a massive look.
I guess the original Brooks-Scanlon Crane Shed building was demolished (without permits) in 2004.
Gee, I missed this when it was first posted, but I’m surprised no one seems to know about the source I’ve used for many years: Special Shapes Company, in Chicago! They advertised in Model Railroader for decades. They have rectangular section bars, round bars, and structural shapes: T’s, I-beams, H-columns, L’s, telescopic tubing (round and square!), channels, etc.—and even hex rod. It isn’t cheap and you KNOW shipping’s outrageous, but when isn’t it, these days?
Deano
BTW, thicknesses don’t include .025" specifically, but maybe it works out that way; most of the tubing and channels I’ve used are fractional dimensions or close (.030" instead of 1/32", etc.), most of which telescope—er, fit inside one another.
Thanks for all the replies! I have a few assembly jigs from past projects with duplicated assemblies, so I know to making one will make assembly much faster regardless of what material I go with. The braces look to be about 10x10s on the long angled one and the verticals, which has siding between them. The z braces look like 2x10s, on both sides of the 10x10s. You can see that in the close end of the structure. This I remember from seeing it in person. Thus 26 braces with 6 pieces for the z
As of the time any available photos were taken, the shed had long been repurposed, the big mill it served long gone, so how the ends may have looked in it’s heyday, is up to speculation. I do know that a beverage distributor worked out of part of it for a while, after the mill shut down. I’ve never seen evidence of rail service, but that doesn’t mean much. On my layout I’ll adapt the end to fit my layout’s need.
I don’t have to compress the length, but the width, I’ll narrow a little on the back side against the wall. No need to angle it in either.
So far:
That’s a 40’ flatcar. The structure is masonite. The window cutouts in it are oversized, but the Northeastern Lumber sheathing will have them cut precise for the windows. The crane was used for moving lumber, nothing heavy like locomotives, so those wooden braces would have been sufficient.
With a round roof, I’ll just cut supports to suit with a bandsaw from masonite, and use cardstock, covered with some kind of rolled roofing.
I’ve read that the shed was 435 feet long, right at 5 feet in HO. That’s what I made mine. Then, I read 500 feet. I can’t verify either with certainty, and both are believable. But I think a 5 foot long model will suffice!
Looks like you’ve got a pretty good plan already worked out! I hope you’ll share the project here as it progresses (and as time allows).
Wayne
Well here’s progress on the Crane Shed, sans brass. Actually, I’m glad I decided to go ahead with wood, I’da died of old age building the braces from brass, including waiting for orders to get here.
Step 1, make a single unit.
Step 2, use it to make an assembly jig.
Step 3, mass produce all the pieces (not all shown here)
Step 4, get comfortable, turn on some music, and get busy. I find if I race the clock, but not at the rate of recklessness, it seems to go faster. I timed the last 8 assemblies, it took 70 minutes to assemble 8. Assembly took 3 sessions of varying length.
This is just mocked up. They are just leaning, but will have holes drilled at the outside post to set down into the particle board.
Next, sheathing and windows
Outstanding Progress [Y]
Now for the 6,000 holes to drill for the Tichy Nut-Bolt-Washer mouldings? [:-^]
Cheers, Ed
Dan,
Great job so far…[Y] [Y] [Y]
Glad You went with wood…so much easier to work with.
The nut bolt idea…does sound inviting, when You get the detail fever…[swg]
Take Care! [:D]
Frank
Here’s an update on the 'ol shed. It’s amazing how tedious everything gets when ya gotta do it 25 times!
Northeastern scribed siding, 1/16 thick, 3/32 spacing is used for the siding. This is still mocked up, the siding is glued on but the braces are just snapped into the gaps.
As I began to glue the siding on, the masonite began to warp cupping outward. The solution to that was to glue the masonite to 1/2 " particle board. That required making notches in it for the 25 windows. then slathering it with Elmer’s wood glue. The thing’s getting heavy.
Those clamps ought to hold everything flat till it dries, hmm? They did.
On to the siding itself: I made one panel, and installed it. On the 2nd one I got the window off center a bit. That won’t do with 24 to go. So using the same jig the frames were assembled on, I cut a window template and centering guides. That made things much more accurate and quick.
I don’t cut thru the template hole, just mark with a mechanical pencil and lay it flat on the bench and use an Exacto. That goes quick enough.
From the back:
Each time I glued a panel on, I’d clamp it flat with a top