When I made the decision to go with NCE form factor was a consideration The hammer shape was more useful to me because it could roll with me around the layout whereas the Digitrax Zephyr was more for stationary application and a handheld throttle was an additional cost.
But as with everything in life you give up something to get something else. In this case I get up the ability to use address zero to run non DCC locomotives.
Also the Zephyr has separate wire terminals for a programming track. Also the NCE has to have the PCP panel mounted somewhere. I also had some issues getting my 14 gauge bus wires into plug NCE Supplies and having them stay put.
Come again Joe on your last comment regarding the 14 gauge bus? I have a 14 gauge bus and never had a problem with them staying put in the NCE pcp panel.
Another factor to consider, recommended to me by the dealer. If you have a club or other people in your area that might come operate with you or you go to their layout, what do they have? Most systems seem to allow you to take your control to another layout to operate, but they must be the same manufacturer.
yeah, Richard, but then there is the issue of the connectors. My club uses NCE with DIN connectors. My NCE layout has the flat RJ11 telephone connectors.
bearman,
Yes, of course the prices I mentioned are MSRP. It’s the only fair way to compare. Otherwise, we’d all have to comparison shop online, search eBay, hit train shows, etc., to find the best prices and post the links. For every sale price of an NCE system you find, I could come up with a Digitrax one and there’s just no reason to. Everyone in the hobby should know how to shop…we shouldn’t have to do that for them.
And yes, I brought up the fact that the PowerCab throttle is the command station. It’s the only one like it in the hobby. Newbies may not realize it, especially since all other throttles control a “base station” of some kind allowing one to unplug the throttle and move it to another location while running trains. You can’t do that with the PowerCab without shutting off the layout or buying the SB5 for $220 MSRP. It’s no different than unplugging a Zephyr and moving it to another locale.
Why would anyone be “castigated” for their recommendation? Sure, my advice would be to get the Zephyr because the reasons I bought mine are still the same reasons I have today. Mainly, that I prefer wireless throttles with knobs, and not only that Digitrax provides the form factor I want, they also do it for less money, too. Win-win for me. Others want a portable throttle, don’t mind that it’s tethered, and prefer the “hammerhead” throttle format, so pick the PowerCab. Good for them. Who would castigate either choice?
Brakie,
The PowerCab is a portable system; the Zephyr isn’t. The actual system itself isn’t “a step above”; in fact one could say it’s a step below in terms of power, number of cabs, number of locos, wireless technology, upgrade paths, etc. But in terms of form, then yes, if your preference is for a portable system it’s the better choice.
Paul, I still think it is unfair to quote and compare MSRP, but we can agree to disagree on that point. In fact, it has been my expereince that the discounted retail price for the same system is witin 5$ or so from retailer to retailer And I have been careful from the beginning not to knock the Digitrax line. Digitrax makes an excellent product. I also have pointed out what I believe to be issues, perhaps minor, based on my experience. It is not my intention to castigate anyone for their choice.
In fact, I have tried to be objective and to note more than once that the OP should do his own reserach and come to his own conclusion about what system he should purchase. I have no financial stake in any product line except to the extent that I purchase it as a consumer (and, yes, I know you have not accused me of this). If the OP purchases Digitrax, fine…Lenz, fine…Bachmann EZ Command, fine…MRC Prodigy, fine…NCE, fine. If the OP purchases a sytem and is happy with it. Great! If he purchases a system sand is unhappy with it, then not so great. But in both cases the decision is his, and his alone.
MSRP is the ONLY fair comparison. If you went to my sort of LHS and tried to compare retail prices, it would unfairly favor NCE as they are an NCE dealer and buy direct from NCE but they aren’t a Digitrax dealer and get theri Digitrax through Walthers. I’m sure I could find another place that is a Digitrax dealer and not an NCE dealer and their discounts would favor Digitrax. MSRP gives you a fixed point of comparison across manufacturers. Can you get it for less? Sure. But the best deal you find might not be the best deal I find - either way.
Of course when Walthers jacks up MSRP on their locos to unreasonable levels so they can put them permanently on sale… at what the old MSRP was, to fool people into thinking they are getting a great discount…
It’s like buying a Chevy back in 1950. Basic transportation, but if you wanted a bit of luxury and whole lot more fun, you eventually had to add on the radio, heater, and white wall tires. Cheaper to buy that 1950 Chevy fully equipped at the time of purchase rather than settle for add-ons later on.
bearman,
Why do you consider comparing MSRP to be unfair? I mean, it is what it is. The only time that using MSRP is unfair is if one were to compare MSRP to the discount price of something else, but we’re not doing that here. MSRP comparisons are “apples to apples”. If the point is to compare buying any DCC system vs. existing analog controls (a throttlepack they already own), by all means bring up the “actual sale price”. But in comparing systems? MSRP is completely fair. Why would you consider it unfair?
As for castigation, you said you’d be “rightfully” castigated because in a year the OP found he didn’t like the system you suggested. I still don’t get that. “Severe criticism” over a DCC system recommendation? We may argue the points of the systems, or DCC vs. DC, but this forum is all rainbows and unicorns when it comes to personal criticism, comparitively speaking. No one has been severely criticized on this forum for years.
Randy,
Exactly!
Rich,
Thanks! This is why I like debating topics online. This thread made me research NCE’s website more than I have in years and I learned new things. I also saw that Digitrax has some new products I didn’t know about.
gregc,
I guess it depends on what you consider a “full system”. The PowerCab/SB5 combo price of $420 gets you a true walkaround tethered DCC system.
To upgrade the $225 Zephyr to a true walkaround system, you’d need at least a basic UT4 throttle at $80. For a “full” DT500 throttle, that’s $189, so a total of either $305 or $414.
Now where the NCE is better at this price point is that this changes the 2 amp PowerCab to a 5 amp system. To likewise add more power to the 3 amp Zephyr would require a 3/5/8 amp $170 DB210 booster.
If anyone needs to castigate me for bad advice, and I admit I’ve given some, I am offering a full refund of the price you paid me for that advice. [:P]
bearman,
Why do you consider comparing MSRP to be unfair? I mean, it is what it is. The only time that using MSRP is unfair is if one were to compare MSRP to the discount price of something else, but we’re not doing that here. MSRP comparisons are “apples to apples”. If the point is to compare buying any DCC system vs. existing analog controls (a throttlepack they already own), by all means bring up the “actual sale price”. But in comparing systems? MSRP is completely fair. Why would you consider it unfair?
As for castigation, you said you’d be “rightfully” castigated because in a year the OP found he didn’t like the system you suggested. I still don’t get that. “Severe criticism” over a DCC system recommendation? We may argue the points of the systems, or DCC vs. DC, but this forum is all rainbows and unicorns when it comes to personal criticism, comparitively speaking. No one has been severely criticized on this forum for years.
Randy,
Exactly!
Rich,
Thanks! This is why I like debating topics online. This thread made me research NCE’s website more than I have in years and I learned new things. I also saw that Digitrax has some new products I didn’t know about.
gregc,
I guess it depends on what you consider a “full system”. The PowerCab/SB5 combo price of $420 gets you a true walkaround tethered DCC system.
To upgrade the $225 Zephyr to a true walkaround system, you’d need at least a basic UT4 throttle at $80. For a “full” DT500 throttle, that’s $189, so a total of either $305 or $414.
Now where the NCE is better at this price point is that this changes the 2 amp PowerCab to a 5 amp system. To likewise add more power to the 3 amp Zephyr would require a 3/5/8 amp $170 D
Greg, I don’t think that you are missing anything. If you already own the Power Cab and simply want to upgrade by purchasing the SB5, then you come close to the full capabilities of the PH-Pro. You would then be only a step away from going wireless, if you so chose.
Your “advantage” is that you already own the Power Cab. For someone who does not own the Power Cab, I would argue that if his budget permits, he should immediately purchase the PH-Pro and forget about the eventual upgrades.
First of all, I agree with Rich. I am someone who started off with the Power Cab and just recently upgraded with the SB5 because I wanted more operating locations.
Second of all, I am not going to get sucked into another MSRP vs. Retail price “discussion” or a “discussion” regarding which system is better. This kind of discussion does not change minds, especially when someone has already committed a serious amount of money to a system. This bridge on MSRP has been crossed.
To reiterate, anyone who is in the market to go DCC, or RailPro for that matter, should do their own research and make a decision on how to spend their money.
Brakie,
The NCE PowerCab is nice, but it’s not a “step above” the Zephyr Xtra.
Sure, the PowerCab is “walkaround”, but it isn’t really. As soon as you unplug the PowerCab to move to another socket, all the trains stop because the throttle is the command station. To keep the trains running while unplugged, you need to buy the SB5 SmartBooster for another $220.
The PowerCab is limited to 2 amps continous, 3 amps peak load. The Zephyr Xtra is 3 amps continuous, 3.5amp peak.
The PowerCab can only have a maximum of 4 throttles. The Zephyr Xtra can have up to 20.
To go wireless throttle control with the PowerCab requires the SmartBooster SB5 ($220), RB02 radio ($160), and either then Procab-R ($250) or Cab06r ($190) for a total of either $570 or $630.
For wireless throttle control with the Zephyr Xtra, it requires the UR92 radio ($160) and either the UT4D ($135) or DT500D ($254) throttle for a total of either $295 or $414.
In many ways, the Zephyr Xtra is more advanced than the PowerCab. What it isn’t is portable like the PowerCab. However, the upgrade path is significantly less money with Digitrax due to that portable nature of the PowerCab.