Hi all. We’re going to get a new DCC system. I had about settled on the Digitrax Empire Builder until I found out it has write only programming. For 100+ dollars less, we can get an MRC Prodigy Advance. The guy at Tony’s I talked with say’s it’s a good system. I know MRC is famous for compatibility issues between products, that’s a drawback. Also, we don’t need radio operation right now. Other than those issues, can anyone tell me a solid reason not to get the PA? Thanks!
grande man,
I think the general consensus of modelers would say that MRC makes great transformers but not-so-great DCC systems. Did you check into NCE or CVP’s EasyDCC systems? Unless you have $$$ burning a hole in your pocket, don’t pull the trigger too quickly and honestly look at ALL the systems out there before making a decision that is right for you and your layout needs.
Tom
the PA has no computer interface or plans to add one . if you don’t care about using decoder pro or using the computer to run trains that might not matter
Go for broke and get the NCE Powerpro, its worth every penny.
How many locos are you going to run? How many operators? How big is your layout? If you aren’t ever going to run more than 10-12 locos at the same time, consider the Zephyr, it does pretty much everything the Super Chief does, just with half the power output. You can add more boosters if you need more amps.
The Super Empire Builder really shouldn’t even be sold other than as an add-on to the Zephyr - if you have a Zephyr and want a DT400 and an additional booster, it’s cheaper to buy the SEB set than buy the booster and throttle seperately.
–Randy
What brand compatibilty issues will you have with the signalling system you just got?
Does the DCC system have to function with it?
Ken.
Hadn’t really thought about the lack of a computer interface. As far as signals go, that was a big plus for Digitrax. Now, due to some operational issues, I’m thinking of using Logic Rail Technologies Block Animators to drive the signals. That will have it’s advantages and disadvantages but DCC system compatibility isn’t an issue. I’ve had a couple of folks pump NCE to me. I’ll look into them some more. One benefit of Digitrax is throttle compatibility with other modelers in our area. There’s lots of Digitrax around here. The MRC PA looks pretty good on paper, was just thinking it might make money sense to use it . I’ll keep researching for now. Any other comments will be apprieciated.
Eric;
One thing that I have always recommended to anyone buying a DCC system is to get the one most of the area modelers use. (Built in trouble shooting base).Here in B’ham area it is Digitrax.
I would also recommend that you take a serious look at the Zephyr from them. Not only does it have the read/write ability for the decoders but it is also fully expandable. It does have the built in Loconet interfaces so it does connect to a computer via either an MS-100 interface from Digitrax or the Locobuffer II interface.
Plus at least within this area I know of at least two Digitrax dealers. Both of whom can do custom installs if necessary. They also carry just about every major brand of decoders you would want, (Shameless plug). Contact me off-line if you would like.
Hi Carey… Thanks for the info. I’ve been talking with Ray and also Keith Davidson about Digitrax. You may be right about the Zephyr and upgrades. There’s been some talk of that already. I’ll look into it some more. Or I may just break down and get a Super Chief. That does seem like a little overkill for a small layout. Thanks again for the input!
Yeah, In my mind the Zephyr is a great system just for even using at the workbench. One of our members has two of them. One he keeps over on the layout because he also has the DB-150 boosters, and can’t read anything, so he uses the Zephyr there. He also put one on his workbench which is also near his computer and it blew him away when we took his 4 DM&IR SD-9’s, and had them programmed, speed matched and MU’ed in less than twenty minutes with the Decoder Pro software and his computer, all thru the Zephyr.
grande man,
I have both the Prodigy Advance and the Digitrax Empire Builder with the old DT-100 throttle. I bought a used Empire Builder off of eBay cheap for the sole purpose of using my computer to program decoders. I know it has only the ability to write, but that is ok since I can read back CV’s from the PA. Since I have both systems, I can honestly say that the PA is a much easier system to use than the Digitrax for a beginner. I spent about two months trying to decide which system to purchase and I found it was cheaper to get everything that I needed to run my 14’ x 19’ layout with the PA than with other systems. I have spent $190 for the PA, $96 for the MRC 8 amp booster, $48 for 3 PA extension plates (the non-powered version) and $56 for a second PA throttle. That totals out to $390 for an entire 8 amp system with two user friendly throttles with 3 locations that I can plug in. Now I will admit that if I wanted more locations to plug in I would have to purchase the powered extension plates (and I have not seen a cost for them). I only have one power district, because it is a home layout and it is only myself (and in the future my son) that will be operating. But I don’t think you can get all of that with Digitrax for the same price. I have not used the Zephyr, but it does not come with a walkaround throttle. I have used the DT100 and seen the DT300 throttles (I have not seen the DT400 or the UT4), and the PA throttle is much easier to use. Within 5 minutes of opening my PA box, I was running trains. When I got the DT100, I had to read the manual in order to figure out how to use the throttle. (It is not that hard, but it is not very intuitive either.)
If using the computer to program your locos is important, then I think you would be best served looking at some of the other systems. But if cost and the ease of use of the handheld is what you are looking for, I think it will be hard to find a better deal than the PA. I know people have spoken about MRC replacing a
I’ve had my Zephyr for more than two years now. Never a problem. I have programed, Digitrax, MRC, Lenz and TCS decoders. The power issue normally (2.5 amps) isn’t an issue on small layouts. I have had as many as 7 locos running at one time on the BRVRR without problems, other than avoiding collisions!
Based on the above, it is obvious that I would recommend the Digitrax Zephyr. I will however second Tom’s motion, try all of the systems, compare features and cost. Talk to modelers in your area and see what they use. A local trouble shooting base can be helpful. Then decide on the system that meets YOUR criteria.
There are pictures of my Zephyr with two MRC power packs attached to the ‘jump ports’ on my website. Link is in my signature. Once there pu***he ‘LAYOUT’ button.
Good luck!
We got the Zephyr, and so far, love it. I consider myself DCC stupid, and this thing is even easy for me to figure out.
Knewsom;
You’ve got to try the DT-400 handheld. Totally eaasy. The Zephyr works same way. Totally easy. The Zephyr already has the two loconet ports that all the other Digitrax boosters come with, so its just a matter of plugging in another handheld or a cable to another panel. It also comes with a 2.5 amp power supply.
I also have the EB with the DB-150 and the DT-100. I don’t even know why Digitrax is still selling the DB-150 as a primary booster in some of their sets, since the other Digitrax boosters, the DCS-100, DCS-200 and the Zephyr all read/write and the Zephyr costs way less than the old EB.
I don’t think the DT-100 is even available anymore, the main trouble with it was it never was intuitive, all of their other handhelds are, even the new UT-4 is easiser to use than it was. I’m hoping that I can talk Santa, (my wife) into getting me the set with the DCS-100 and the DT-400r for Christmas.
grande man, i know i"m going to get alot of flak for saying this, but i have MRC prodigy(not advance) and am REALLY happy with it! keep in mind though, i"ve been running DC for 30+yrs, so this is the first DCC system i"ve had. and,its on an 2x12 switching layout(at dads in the basement)that will not grow due to lack of space. dad and me can run one engine each without ANY problems, and have a BLAST doing it! we have sound, and can run engines with sound in them. also, we didnt want to mess with all the computer programing stuff, thought it would be to technical, and we just wanted to have fun driving trains. we have 2 atlas master engines with decoders already in them, and had ZERO problems, just TONS of fun! if what your doing is anything like i descibed, i say GET IT! if you want more, or plan on expanding, you might want to consider somthing else. though i"m sure you can do more with the prodigy advance,but i really am not sure what. in any case GOOD LUCK!
Guys forgive my ignorance here. The Zephyr comes with a 2.5 amp power supply. Is there any reason I couldn’t use a higher output (3.5+amp) unit with it? That’s my main concern, not enough capacity. It’ll be unusual for us to run more than 8 or so locos at one time.
You would have to add an extra booster - a used DB100A on eBay would be the cheapest, but a new DB150 would work as well - this is why I mentioned the Empire Builder***an add-on, you can get the DB150 and a DT400 plus a UP5 throttle panel for less than the seperate costs of the DT400 and DB150.
However, for 8 or less, unless they are all sound equipped, you mght be fine! I’ve had 8 locos running at the same time on my Zephyr: 3 P2K GP7s, a P2K S-1, a Stewart F7, a Stewart DRS4-4-1000, a P2K SD45, and a P2K SD9. On an 8x12 layout there was some GHA (Giant Hand Action) keeping them from running into one another, but the Zephyr never complained. Next time I need a little excitement I will try more - now that I have a DT400 I can have more than 1 at a time under actual control, plus at the time that as every DCC loco I had except for 2 BLI’s and an Atlas. I have since installed decoders in a few more locos.
–Randy
The Zephyr should have no problem with 8 HO scale locomotives, even if they all have sound systems. Most newer HO scale locomotives draw less than 500 mA at full stall, and when was the last time you stalled an HO scale locomotive, much less 8 at the same time… [:p]
I didn’t want to rain on anyone’s parade here as I know there are a lot of happy MRC users here, and for the most part MRC has a solid product in the Advance. But besides the limitations in computer control that have already been discussed, there are a number of other key features lacking in the Advance that will probably affect your operations, and I’m not convinced the buss speed they use is all that hot either (lack of zero stretching and no universal consist support are factors here) which points to a slower and less refined product that will rear the speed gremlins as more throttles are added. The other big issue concerning the Advance is that MRC seems to make newer systems that aren’t backwards compatible, making future upgrades a different proposition than some of the competitors products (Digitrax stuff is nearly 100% backwards compatible for example).
My take on the whole what set to start with issue is always the same, hands down pick up a Zephyr. Besides tons of upgradability, it is the only “starter” system that doesn’t hold you back from the features available in the more expensive systems, and all the throttles and other bits and pieces Digitrax makes will work just fine with the Zephyr. Also remember that you can use cheap transformers as jump throttles with the Zephyr, so buying new throttles isn’t a must right out of the gate.
I’m waiting to
For purposes of computing current draw, here are some basic figures:
Non-sound equiped locos: 0.2A per loco
Soundtraxx equipped locos: 0.4A per loco
QSI equipped locos: 0.6A per loco.
If you run more than 4 QSI locos at once on a 2.5A system, you’ll start overtaxing the system as a general rule of thumb … but you should be able to run up to 12 non-sound locos at once, no problem.
But it’s also true that Digitrax systems seem to have the hardest time recovering from a short when you have high inrush current QSI locos on your layout.
Depending on your system, somewhere between 2 and 4 QSI locos on the track will cause a Digitrax system to go down when there’s a short and then stay down, with the booster not recovering until you remove the QSI locos from the track.
The high inrush current of the QSI decoders fools the Digitrax system into thinking there is still a short on the track, so the booster refuses to power back up. The high inrush current in the QSI decoders is to charge the capacitors that enable the sound to stay on over dirty spots in the track … a nice feature, but something needs to be done with the design to get the inrush current draw down to avoid this problem.
The other fix is to put the 1156 bulbs in the track feeders, which limits the current load on a short and prevents the booster from even seeing a short as a “short”. Since the booster stays up, the QSI locos are not a problem. For more on the bulbs and how they work, see my DCC Forum Clinic on here at:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=4&TOPIC_ID=36389
Joe, and others. I have a Zephyr. It runs the power district in my yard and is my command station for the layout. I have a DB150 running the main line power districts. In my yard right now are the following locomotives:
BLI- E7
BLI- 2-8-2
BLI- 2-8-2
BLI Switcher
8 other decoder, non sound equipped locomotives with Lenz, Digitrax and TCS decoders.
Plus there are 2 lighted passenger cars in the yard.
I have all 4 BLI’s running with sound. I short the track (Quarter test), the Zephyr goes into short mode, I remove the short, the Zephyr recovers just fine. I have never had a situation where my command station does not come back on.