I’m getting back into the hobby after 25 years. Surely a lot has changed since then. My question comes to chosing a scale, N or HO. I’ve read all of the pro’s and con’s between the scales but still have a question I need answering. The question revolves around the size engines and cars I can run on a proposed layout.
My first layout would of course be a small layout. But eventually, I would like to expand my railroad to an L or U shape in an area 10 feet by 15 feet. My future layout would probably be in based on the classic “folded dog bone” design. A good example would be the layout from the April 2010 issue of “An HO track plan for a home office”.
Could someone give me an idea what length of engines and rolling stock could negotiate the curves for an HO layout to fit in this space? My primary era of interest would be the B&O railroad during the time of late steam and early diesel engines. I know I couldn’t run a Big Boy around a layout of this size, but what about something like a 4-8-4? I hope my question makes since.
your question does make sense, and it is good, that you ask it before you have made any purchases. In the space you have mentioned, you can build a very nice HO layout, but to run that 4-8-4, you need to have a minimum radius of 22 - 24". Those locos have quite a long fixed wheelbase and thus require quite a wide radius. With 22" curves, the room you have is all of a sudden not that big anymore.
If you want to run big engines and long trains, then N scale could be your choice. You can put an awful lot of railroading into 10´ by 15´. Unfortunately, the choice of N scale steam locos is still somewhat limited and if you want to enjoy sound, it gets even less.
A bit of a dilemma, isn´t it?
I prefer HO scale - actually, as I am into modelling British outline railroads, I go for OO scale, which is roughly 10 % larger than HO scale.
Jesse, I have been able to run Big Engines on smaller turns. Yes, even a Big Boy can take a 18 inch turns if the turn is well laid. Will look a little odd with the overhang. Now passenger cars is a different story. On them I would want 24 inch turns.
What kind of operations do you want to run? Small local freight or big main line freight? Big switch yard or just some passing spurs and team tracks? A HO engine and 20 cars will eat up 20 feet by them self.
10 X 15 would be fine for either scale depending on what kind of train’s you want to run. If you want to run long trains and have a good sizes yard, I would go N scale. Local freight with 10 cars or so HO is fine.
I am HO scale and bench is 19 X 13. If I redo my layout, I am 75 sure I would go N scale next time around.
It’s going to be tough to get those large radius curves to handle steam in a folded dog bone design in that amount of space. My space is 7X11 HO and I employ an around the room shelf layout to obtain a 27" minimum curve. Some of my walthers passenger cars can’t even handle that radii.Other manufacturers will work though, like rapido. I’ve had both N and HO layouts and I like them both. However HO offers more choice in steam, and I like the size. My first layouts were all N scale. I moved to HO scale 20 years ago. HO was cheaper back then too. Not so anymore. About the same in price for N today.
Been a long time since I ran HO, but years back, I ran a an AHM Y6-B on 18" radius curves with #4 switches. No, it didn’t look “correct” making those tight turns, but ran fine.
Fast forward, now running N and most of my curves are 11" radius and mostly #4 with a few #6 switches. While I’m using mostly diesel (even 6 axle engines), my Northern and Pacific steamers pulling heavyweight passenger cars don’t seems to have any problems negotiating the turns or turnouts. Again, they may not prototypically correct, but I’ve got a lot of track crammed into a small foot print and sometimes compromises have to be made.
Unfortunately what works for you will be a matter of trail and error. You can (and should) always stack the deck in your favor by using the largest radius curves and longest turnouts possible, but sometimes the “rules” can and have to be broken to get the effect YOU want.
Regardless of what you do, the simple fact is that N will always allow more “stuff” in the same foot print compared to HO.
I’ve been a static modeler for years. I’ve done 1/35th Armor, 1/48th Aircraft, and 1/350 Ships. I’m willing to give up some operation by having more detail. But, I would like to run steam and some passenger cars.
Is there some rule of thumb or chart or something that describes the lengths of cars/engines and the minimum radius they can handle?
You should aim for 3x your longest car for your Minimum radius.
So, if you have a 6" car and it happens to be the longest one you have, then 18" radius will be fine. If you plan on running 12" passenger cars, then you need to look at 36" radius.
The 3X rule cited in the link is on the conservative side - deliberately so. If followed, you can depend on reliable operations with decent trackwork and wheels. Couplers won’t pull other cars off the track. Wheels won’t rub on underframe details.
You can go to sharper curves than the rule states. But your trackwork has to be better. You may need to make modifications to some cars or locomotives to accommodate the sharper curves. And a few (the number goes up as the curve gets sharper relative to length) will need extensive modifications or they won’t stay on the track at all. You will need a testing program to determine which rolling stock will work and which won’t.
There is another alternative, but it’s not for everybody. Shift your era or prototype to one which features short cars and locomotives. Shift your era to the 19th Century and 18" is a pretty reasonable radius for all but the most modern and longest passenger cars. Just stick with 50ft open platform passenger cars painted in varnished straw or wine (I have a sweet spot for them), and the 18" radius is good to go in HO. Freight cars were typically 28-34ft in length, which means you can put 12 of them in a siding which only holds 10 40ft cars or 7 50ft cars. A 4-4-0 looks pretty realistic with a 10-12 car train on level track. Use a small 2-8-0 to haul tonnage up your grades. Doubleheading was quite common to conquer grades then. Even the biggest steamers of the 19th Century fit on a 9" turntable (and a 9" long engine or round house), which saves more space.