Hi all, this is my first post, Ive been lurking around here for about a year and reading Model Railroader since I was a kid. My dad and I have been going to shows and working on his layout since I was younger than I can rember. Now that Ive finally got a house with the space im going to start my own layout. Since reading some of the posts on here ive learned some new things I want to try, but i thought Id see what you guys thought first. Im going to start by sort of useing one of the track plans walthers has listed on their website, Illinois central( http://www.walthers.com/exec/page/track_plan_ic) but i want to extend the loop past the siding at the top and eliminate the crossover. I also have some ideas on how to make it expandable but Ill talk about that later. I plan to build in various sized modules the first will be around 4’ wide by about 8’6" long. and the scenery/industry I have planed should fit well in that.
Now here is what I’m looking for opinions. Its going to be in a Michigan basement so I’m going to at least prime and seal the wood. I want to use 1/4 or 1/2 inch plywood painted, with woodland scenics foam roadbed glued down, then I will atlas flex track, and I think i want nail the track so I can remove it easily if necessary.
By Michigan basement do you mean its in Michigan or the old style low ceiling, stone walls, maybe a floor type that us realtors call a Michigan Basement?
If you have a basement that you can use, I would look at doing around the room shelf layout. About 2 feet wide or so around will give you plenty of room to model and plenty of room to work in the basement and depending on how big the basement is, you could add a peninsula. The 4x8 is tempting but it boxes you in if you are not careful.
If you are using just one layer of plywood, use 1/2" and frame it with 1"x3" (or4") lumber (min 2’ on center, 16" better) to keep it from twisting over time. Sealing it is definitely a good idea. 1/4" would tend to sag even if framed.
As suggested above, around the walls, i f you can do it will give you greater flexability.
If you are limited to doing modules and staying on a table format, think about making that 4’x8’6" table in two parts. It would move much easier. A 4’x8’ fully sceniced can be heavy and difficult to manouver out of basements, small rooms and the like.
Planning so that you can expand is a good idea. Gives you a chance to get trains up and running, then do some scenery. You can be doing several different phases of the hobby at one time, whichever suits your desires at the moment.
To be honest, many people would find that this layout doesn’t offer much in long term interest. I certainly don’t want to discourage you from getting a start in the hobby, but there are proably better choices.
Just to help you with terminology as you are entering the hobby, that’s a crossing. Lots of experienced people make that error.
Most people find that sections are much more portable if they are smaller, maybe 2’X6’ or 2.5’X6’
Note also that there is nothing magical about 4 feet wide, in fact it limits the minimum radius you may use in HO scale and thus the types of equipment you may operate.
I would also suggest that you try to keep the width of the benchwork narrower to no more than 30", 24" maybe better. I know that you may want that “continuous running” requiring end loops to be substantial for the min radius. I would rethink an overall around the wall track plan to fit within the space available. Of coarse you could always work on sections and place temp track for actual running.
Posting a floor plan of the space avaiable showing doors, windows mechanical and other structural fixed supports, chimneys and stairs may help others get a better feel as what you have to work with.
Thanks for all the input, and the terminology cuyama. I should have been a little clearer, I cant use the hole basement but just one side and the center of the room(Ill post a floor plan soon). So the this 4x8 part will be an island in the center and my plans for expansions will be 2’ shelf around 3 walls and possibly into another room in the future. As for the modules, its not for portability but just my way of building in working sections as time and money allows.
rws1225, I guess its not technically a Michigan basement, It has block walls but a low ceiling and is kind of damp… Oh and is in Michigan. lol
Thanks again for the input Ill try and get a floor plan soon.
Byron Henderson (Cuyama) is a modest man; though one of the nicest plans for a 8x4 with a run-around designed by him made me dream about California. Put the record of the Mamas and the Papas on the “turntable” too.
I agree with Richard about addressing the humidity issue first. A dehumidifier is one alternative, but if you can identify the source of the moisture you might be able to stop it before it gets into the room. That could involve sealing the walls and/or the floor. There are various methods to do this. If you can accomplish the sealing with the proper paint then it shouldn’t cost an arm and a leg. If the problem is the result of poor drainage around the foundation, either sell the house or buy a fleet of dehumidifiers![swg]
I have a couple of suggestions. You may already be aware of these issues:
First, if you are going to use a dehumidifier, set it up to drain into the floor drain (if you have one). Trying to keep up with emptying the dehumidifier basin can be a chore.
Second, any lumber that you bring into the room should be allowed to acclimatize for several days so that the humidity level in the wood matches the humidity level in the room. If you start building as soon as the wood is brought into the room you are inviting the wood to expand or contract after you have assembled the benchwork. That won’t be a good thing!
Dave provided some very critical advice above: deal with the damp basement issues before you start building a layout. If it’s only typical basement mustiness, a dehumidifier is all you need. If you actually have running water in your basement (yes, it happens – I once lived in a house where the water table came up through the sump most every spring… once even to the point where we had a foot of water in the basement), consult a professional and get some mitigation efforts in place before you build.
And ALWAYS let lumber acclimatize. You might be surprised how much wood expands and contracts.
Now, as to your layout design, there is one important point to remember: only you have to be happy with your layout, and only you can decide what makes you happy. We can (and will) provide some ideas and things you might want to watch out for, but ultimately, the final details and decisions will have to come from your mind.
So, here are my caveats:
If using a pre-designed track plan, remember a couple of things. First, no one may have actually built or run it, and it may not work as well as the original designer thought. Secondly don’t get tricked by the pretty picture. Look at where the track is and what it does, because that’s all you’ll ever see in your basement.
4x8 is a very convenient size, because all you have to do is throw the sheet of plywood in the back of your vehicle and voila, layout table. It does, however, tend to guide your efforts into a continuous loop of track, with minor variations. While Christmas trees and cats like things that just go around in a circle, most of the rest of us get bored quickly. My layout IS a continuous loop, but it’s divided so that the loop gives the impression of time and distance – in other words, it takes the train some time to get somewhere. Many of us would never sacrifice that continuous loop on our layouts, while others
Dave and CTValley have offered some excellent advice. As for that “wet” or damp block wall basement. Solving those water/ moitsure issues if the first consideration. As long as the water problem isn’t a permanant hight water table, as CT had, a good portion of the trouble can be dealt with. Check the concrete floor to wall seam and inspect for any settling cracks in the block. For very large cracks you may need repointing or a mastic filler (pliable rubberized seam fill like that used on pool coping). Generally though, just washing walls, or if any eforecence is present wash w/ muriatic acid solution. UGL brand “Drytloc” is a readilly available concrete sealer that works quite well.
Check all the gutter/ downspouts and make sure that rain runoff doesn’t work back toward foundation. Many times a gutter can be repositioned for pitch to divert the majority of roof water to the downspout that will carry most away from the house.
I have dried many basements here in New England by altering rain/ gutter runoff. Of coarse there are many situations where overall property grade, higher runoff to your property, underground springs etc will be almost immpossible to solve. Other factors such as bulkheads,additions or jogs in the foundation itself can cause pooling and trap water against the wall.Sumps and/ or other rather costl measures are needed in these cases. And no matter how dry a basement may be, periods of high humidity will require the use of the dehumidifier.
Many very good ideas have been suggested here. One that I would suggest is that the ground around the house slope AWAY from the foundation walls so that rainwater is carried away from the house and not towards it.
Another thing to do is to hang some plastic sheeting from the ceiling above the layout to keep all the du
Great to see that you are looking to start a layout, but I will leave you with a few pointers.
First, you might want to consider a scale smaller than HO for a 4’ by 8’6’’ space. You would only be able to run the smallest of locomotives and some mid-sized equipment on such a layout in HO. In N scale, in the same space, you can run small articulated locomotives. You could even add some more spurs and have a longer mailline run with N scale in an HO space.
If you do nail the track down, don’t force the nails into the layout surface, for it could distort the ties and throw the track out of gauge (this is experience talking, I’ve forced track out of gauge doing this and it is a pain).
The idea of adding a track for expanding the layout is great, you can even add an interchange to generate more traffic.
