As you will see by the question I’m about to ask, I’m brand new to the world of trains (and model trains). I’ve tried to find my answer on the web, but with no success…so here goes;
I was wondering why you will see in multiple locomotive unit trains why some are “backwards” instead of all units facing “forwards” ?..for lack of better terms. Is there some advantage in weight distribution / traction to going with this type of set-up ?
Thanks in advance for any feedback.
that depends - sometimes it’s better to have the locos that way, so that at the end of the run, they don’t need to turn the locomotives. all that the engine crew has to do is run around the cars and couple to the other end. Other times it’s just because that was the way that the locomotives were, and since diesels work equally well going in either direction, it’s just easier to lash them together as they are, as opposed to turning the ones that are facing “backwards”.
Now, this only works for diesel (and probably electric) locomotives. It is/was better to run steam engines all facing “forward” as each locomotive needed a crew and it was easier for them to work with the engine facing the “right” way. Diesels and electrics need only 1 crew/train.
Exactly, Diesel locomotives have no advantage in the direction aspect besides view.
[#welcome] to the forums!
It could be a benefit to have the second engine facing forward if there is a problem with the lead locomotive.
That’s an interesting point.
Not really. Even if the unit has some problems it can still control the trailing units.
Actually steam engines did run backwards sometimes. For example, the SP&S interchanged cars w/ the NP at Scribner, the first siding west of Spokane, in order to maximise mileage charges. Since there were no facilities to turn an engine at Scribner the normal procedure (w/ a Challenger yet!) was to run the engine facing forward one way and properly lined the other. Another example was the N&W running rear end helpers backwards behind the caboose (I believe on the grade at Blue Ridge) so that they need only uncouple at the summit and run front end first light down the hill, visibilty for a pusher being a non-factor.
When a siding is available, the defective first unit could be placed behind the second engine.
Having the “end” units in a lash-up facing away from each other can sometimes make switching easier too. Back in the forties Northern Pacific ordered some A-B-B sets of F units for passenger service. (This means an “F” model diesel where the first “A” unit has a cab, and is followed by two “B” units which have the same motors etc. as the “A” unit, but no cab. All three are controlled by the controls of the “A” unit.) However, at St.Paul MN Union Depot (which sits on one leg of a wye), the NP found that it was hard to back the engine onto a train coming around a curve - the engineer was on the wrong side for one thing. They later bought more A units and converted the sets to A-B-A setups with a cab at each end, so the engineer could just go to the back A unit and couple up to the train, then go back to the lead A unit to run the train when it was time to leave.
I’m sure crews today do something similar in some situations with a multiple engine consist when they need to do some switching or when coupling up to their train(??)
I’ll have to ask my friend who was responsible for much of IC’s rebuild program but my inital thought would be running in one direction only would wear the drive gear and pinion on one side over time whereas running both directions on successive runs would equalize wear and keep them on the road longer before needing an overhaul.
Thank you all for your reply’s !
The Strasburg Railroad runs their steam engines backwards. There aren’t any turning facilities at Paradise, PA. The engine ‘runs around’ the train for the return trip.
I have never seen a pic of pushers tender first. Can you post a link to some pics?
The Kamloops Heritage Railway runs the 2141 (the one in my avatar) backwards on the return trip from Armstrong. It looks ridicules seeing the engine run assend forward, but there is no turntable at Armstrong … yet. They aren’t running at any kind of speed that it would be a problem though.
The WB video “The Fifties Express” shows a N&W 2-8-8-2 (IIRC? a big mallet anyway) being used tender first as a helper on a long coal train.
Not a helper, but DM&IR 2-8-8-2’s had a bell and headlight on the deck of the tender, since they ran trains of ore cars down from Proctor yards to the ore docks in Duluth and took empties back. They had no way to turn around at the docks, so they usually backed downhill and then ran forwards back up.
The only engines that could not be turned around and run nose forward both directions were Steam Mountain trams.
The water jacket had to be built level for the % of grade. Then you always wanted the water around the fire box for the maxiumn amount of time.
Now if you are using STEAM helpers. You would aline the engines so that the fire box would be on the lower side during the maxumn work load. As stated before the crew of the helpers do not have to watch the rails ahead. They listen to whisle signals.
Now for Diesels (YAK)
Diesels Run equally well in both direction. The old covered wagons units did not vave any visability to the rear.
Geeps were designed to give this back. Some railroads and Engineers like running long hood forward for protection of the engineer in a crash. But the need for visability made that short lived.
GG-1s were a great motor unit. Problem the motorman could not communicate with or see his second on the other side. The motorman could not see anything with in a quarter mile on the other side. Going around a left curve was done by prayer.
Those Motor units could get a train up to 100mph in about 1 minute.
Sometimes, it is better to have the locos that way for convinience at the destination. Lucky for the engineer the locomotives automatically know which way to go. In other words, if you had to locos in a consist the front one forward and back one backwards the last one would know which way to spin its wheels.