I am starting to plan my new layout and I finally know some of my limitations. I have a large “L” room where my wife has allowed about a 12’ x 12’ with a 2’ x 6’ off of one corner. So basically the top part of the “L”.
So I am struggleing with two concepts. Do I play the space for the railroad or plan the railroad for the space? I was thinking of an around the room dogbone, but then I am turning large trains on a 24" or 26" radius. I model the modern era with auto racks, intermodel, and passenger trains. My other ideas use a skinny table to maximize the long runs and wider turns.
Staging: Everyone says you have to have staging. How do you fit staging into a medium size layout that is running larger trains?
Ah yes. Life is a compromise. But you found that out when you got married. Have you been married for a while, or are you newly married. This is important, because if you are going to have children, she is going to take that room away from you again.
Be that as it may, what is it that you want to model. You specified long modern trains. 12’ + 12’ = 24 ft and there is no way around that either. LION runs 300’ long subway trains, which makes the stations 4’ long. That is ok for a model subway, but it is not a mile long freight train.
If you must have the long train, then it is not going to have a long run. As I see it you can make one division point, and have the train go into staging to the right and to the left.
If you have room for loops at each end then you can climb the walls with one level above the other.
LION did that too, him has three levels in a 24’ 27’ room, him has 14 scale miles of track, and an 18 minute run time from top to bottom and back again. (That division is only 9 miles).
LION thinks your room really does mitigate against a long run at this time.
Oh well. At least your wife will know where you are in the evenings.
You might want to take some masking tape and layout your wants for the railroad and see what the wife gives or takes and decide from there and maybe meet in the middle or do the second level, best to decide now than later.Jim.
I do not understand the two concepts you are struggling with. Do you mean a narrow shelf all around the outside of the room vs some sort of a table with two blobs for the two ends of the dog bone.
Lower Level. I would say with larger trains on a smaller track that staging is that much more important otherwise there are always trains all over the layout. No one likes to see locos nose to tail with the FRED of the train in front of it.
You need to step back and rethink this whole issue.
You say that you have been relegated to a portion of the room, but then you talk about an “around the room dogbone”. Which is it?
You indicate that you model the modern era with autoracks, intermodal, and passenger trains. That’s quite a bit to model in a small space with small radius curves.
You ask about staging and how you fit staging into a medium size kayout that is running larger trains. Good question, tough to answer.
Form what you have indicated, it seems to me that your best bet is to get the wife to agree to a shelf-type layout around the room as opposed to a 12’ x 12’ space in one corner of the room.
Simple. If YOU are designing the house for the railroad, then you can plan the space for the railroad. Once the house is built, then you’re kinda stuck planning the railroad for the space.
Again, simple - well, in concept, anyway. Put the staging under the layout. OK, there’s more than one way to do this. You could have a visible yard for staging, but some might say that’s none too realistic. It will definitely cut down on the available space for other scenery. My staging is on a (to-be) hidden lower level. There’s at least 2 practical ways to connect staging to the main level, the first is by use of a helix (spiral), which are known to use considerable space and sometimes a challenge to construct. The other way is a so-called “no-lix” (which I’m using), which is essentially an around-the-walls run to gain elevation. This may not be feasible on a smaller layout, but with you having 12x12 to work with, that should be plenty of room. There’s some folks who would suggest a “train elevator”, which isn’t a bad idea if you use short trains, but if using long trains, you’ll either need a long elevator, or you’d have to lift/lower your trains in sections.
For a 26" radius, you’re going to need at least four-and-a-half feet of table of room for that return loop. If you put that in a corner, you’ll have to take accessibility into account, since very, very few of us c
Generally you will have to plan the RR into the space because the space already exists. The size of the space can also dictate what you can run. I am in a 9 by 24 room and I have chosen to run small locos and short trains. (HO) I run early four axle Geeps etc, 40 foot cars, and eight car trains. This looks good on my layout. Equipment in the modern era is considerably larger and requires larger curves. Short trains do not look good, but you don’t have the room to run long trains and make it look ‘right’.
You will get more ‘layout’ if it is around the walls. Two foot wide is a good width. Any more than that and you may have ‘reaching’ problems in the corners. (My layout started in a 9 by 13 foot room, so I know what your challenges are.
As for the RR, I would build a single track mainline that goes around the room twice on the main level. One track would be higher than the other, and there would be grades built in to get the tracks connected again after one passes under/over the other. That way your trains could be stretched out some along the line.
Use the 2 by 6 ‘L’ section for an interchange or yard.
Staging can be built on a lower level where you can store complete trains that pass through your layout. Make it as close to the main level as you can and still be able to reach in and grab a car or two. Try and make staging a run-through type so trains can come and go from both directions. You should also make one through track and connect it with your mainline at each end of your staging area.
Part of developing a model RR is planing it’s operational concept. Here is what I would do: Plan the layout around the walls. The mainline would go three times around the room, maybe more depending on the grades down to and back up from staging. A small yard and a couple of in
I would have to agree with Elmer’s last statement, consider switching to N scale. The space is great for running long trains with long cars in N scale, but not so much in HO. I have twice the space with 28’ & 30" curves and I limit my cars to 60’, anything longer just doesn’t look right. I do l run an 80 car train now and then, but even in a12x24 around the walls layout with a center dogbone (folded figure 8), the train goes around 3 walls, so the locos are almost chasing their tail. I usualy max out train length at about 60 cars. Another thing, with dog bone and it’s 29’ & 31"radii, that leaves the wall sections at the dogbone area only 12" deep with a 20" aisleway, not ideal.
I have never understood how modelers can change themes or scales. My collection started over 30 years ago and the return on investment for disposal of the collection would break my heart! In hind sight I should have modeled the Duluth South Shore & Atlantic in the late 1800s before CP bought them.
However back to the layout planning. Negotiations have gone well and my wife is going to allow me to build the layout around the entire room, so now we are discussing a walk around layout. The long walls of the room are 21’ and 20’. So I will have 42’ of running line around the L shaped room. One of the long walls will only be 1’ wide as my wife’s scrap booking work area will also share this room. Therefore, a two or three track staging yard will run behind her scrap book desks along the main.
Thanks to everyone for the ideas and realizing that I needed to maximize real estate. As fas as wife and kids they are all included in the plans.
I’m glad that you were able to negotiate for more layout space. That will make all the difference in the world. Quite a few modelers have their layouts in rooms that they share with their families, so you did good.
One little piece of advice: when you are working on the layout, always clean up the area you are working in regularly. The less mess the wife sees, the better off you will be. I don’t know about most modelers, but I tend to be messy when I have a project going. Since you are going to be working in a room shared by others, try and keep it cleaner than normal.