First post here. I have been a model railroad fan for many years, since my dad built me my first 4x8 HO layout way back when. I had to take a haiatus for about 15 years as the Navy and kids started to consume more of my time. But finally, the time has come to start gearing back up and actually build that layout that I have scetched out and dreamed of so many times.
So the planning stage obviously is going to be first part of all this (I have always believed that ANY project has to at least start with a good plan and go from there). This layout is going to be for me and my son (and daughters if they show the interest). But there will be some very special concerns therein. My kids are quadruplets and will be 12 this October. All amazing kids but due to some complications at birth…my son is blind. He has some very minimal light perception (he sees some highly contrasting shades for instance black on white etc). Taylor is also very high functioning autistic. The girls all have varying degrees of poor to bad eyesight but aren’t blind. Taylor has some pretty amazing abilities…he can memorize things nearly instantly…including the layouts of remote controls (hmm…DCC controller, turnout schematic with toggle switches…), computer keyboards, piano keyboards, radio controls, etc. He is also very aural…he loves sound effects and things such as that which he can control. His mobility is slightly limited due to some issues with his hips so easy access to a layout is key as well.
With that background, here is the very basic idea of what I want to build for us. I probably won’t even get to physically start this project until May or June of 2011 so I have plenty of time for proper planning and budgeting. As well as gathering as much input as I can before then. I am probably goi
I like the way you think - planning ahead and being clear about what your primary goals are.
How is your available space configured - where are walls etc relative to the layout space? The reason I am asking is that a turnback loop on a table up against a wall in N scale works well - since total layout depth likely will be less than 30" - so you can reach across the table or shelf from one side.
In H0 scale, a turnback curve will most likely require a table that is 4 - 5 feet deep for reasonable H0 scale curve radius (20-28" radius curves gives 48 - 60" deep tables, with 2" wide buffer zones between the track and the table edge).
That is too deep to reach across from just one end, but works if you can access the track from both sides (ie if the turnback curve is on a peninsula, with access from both sides). In a pinch, you might make do with a popup for infrequent access to the rear part of the track.
Also - aisles should be minimum 2, preferably 3 feet (or more) wide. So I would start with a picture or description of the layout area, to see if you can arrange turnback curves in a way that doesn’t give you access trouble.
Another option is looking at small H0 scale trains on N gauge mechanisms - they are likely to tolerate tighter curves that full H0 scale trains.
Just something to think about - I am not saying that a Housatonic Valley RR style won’t work. But there will be some challenges with turnback curves in H0 scale if up against a wall.
Also - not sure about DCC vs DC for automation. DCC makes it a lot easier for several people to run several trains independent of each other with fairly minimal wiring, since it is based on the commands for the trains being superimposed on the track power, and orders being picked up by the train with the decoder address mentioned in the encoded command.
But when it comes to such things as having trains automatica
That track plan has a few flaws, some of which were a by-product of the artificial gimmick of constraining the design to fit on one cut-up sheet of plywood.
For your purposes, however, the biggest issue is one of scale and minumim radius. A pure re-scaling of that plan would require something like 14 1/2’ X 16 1/2’. (the relationship is 160/87.1) So the elements of the published plan would be a very tight fit in your current space, if they would work at all.
More concerning is the radius. Most people find the absloute minimum HO radius they want to deal with is 18" (and more is better for reliability with a wide range of equipment). A full turnback cuve (180 degree plus) of 18" radius plus room for track width and space to the wall or aisle means at least 42" or so. Times 2 for the published confguration plus a minimum 2-foot aisle and you are at about 9 feet in width at absolute minimum.
A “donut” style arrangement may be a better choice in that narrow space for HO, or if you can find differently-arranged space elsewhere in the house, you could consider the published plan in HO. Obviously, the mobility issues may be a problem for negotiating the duckunder into a “donut”.
Or bending a “dogbone” style layout into an “L” to fit could work, and would ease the access. But in any case there would be significantly less area for layout elements relatively in HO than in the N scale published plan.
CAD is highly touted on internet forums and is a great tool, but is not the only way to design a layout. And a most important step is gaining some background in layout design principles before CAD. An excellent source is John Armstrong’s
Welcome to the forum chief. It sounds like you have some challenges ahead, and I’m sure that all of them cannot be forseen. I do not have DCC, but the questions you have asked I have read before and can give you a few answers. Yes, you can put sound decoders in the locomotives to activate the bell, whistle, steam chuffs, diesel sounds and also control the lights, but all decoders are not made the same. I have recently been enlightened to the fact that the Digitrax Super-*chief (*haha, get it??) will control the 3-4 locomotives without having to buy additional equipment for the $150 range.
A 6x13 HO layout is no big issue as long as you plan for the track. That layout is roughly half the size of HO, and essentially just a loop with some switching, a siding, a reverse loop, and hidden staging. In HO scale, the smallest radius you would want is 18", along with some room on the outer edges of the track means the loops would be at least 40" wide. This might be a bit of a stretch if your arms are short, have a lot of tall scenery, etc, you can answer that question. If “No, I can’t reach”, then you may want to either leave some of the end open on both sides or install a hatch in the middle somewhere. The small radius also limits what rolling stock and engines that can be run reliably on it without derailing due to stringlining or body interference. This is the smaller 4axle diesels, smaller steam engines x-6-x’s, and rolling stock of the 40/50’ range. You might get some larger engines to go around but they are more likely to jump track. As for ease of construction, it is flat with only one water feature (river) so that shouldn’t be a big issue if you have just a little woodworking experience.
Going for the desert terrain with sound equipped locomotives should help with vision issues because of the high contrast and sound to follow and still keep things realistic looking. I’m sure with a little planning and thought you could put togeth
Just to illustrate the donut concept Byron mentions here - I have a layout room that is 6.5 feet wide by 11.5 feet long, and this is what I have done in my room:
Mainline minimum curve radius is 22", minimum curve radius is 20" (on the ramp down to the barge terminal).
Aisle width (at 30" minimum) is just barely adequate for two grown men to squeeze past each other while running trains:
Crossing over the door in my room is a detachable cassette, which probably should be replaced with a swing gate that easily latches back in position for a person with reduced eyesight:
Btw - here is a picture of one of my sons (who is also on the spectrum) switching at the yard tracks by the warehouse district:
HO & N are the most realistic scales for modeling, but with the visual impairment issues, you might want to consider a larger scale. Of course you know your children better than any of us do, so you are best qualified to make that call.
I model HO and DCC (Digitrax Super Chief) and wouldn’t change a thing. The price the other poster quoted of $150 is for the Digitrax Zephyr, not the Chief. The Chief is considerably more expensive.
I, too, was in the Navy. CTM-2 when I got out in 1968.
I am not familiar with the layout in question, however just calling it up briefly I see that converting a U-shape N-scale dog-bone 8x9 into an HO in only 6x13 is going to be tough if not impossible even using 18" radius curves.
With the sight issues of the children is scenery going to be a factor at all or are you looking at mostly a plywood praire, or is the scenry for your own appreciation/enjoyment? I know you mentioned sparse barren SW US type but don’t know how barren you are thinking.
I think the answer is yes. It is possible to add sound and automated lighting in other ways too. Is Taylor going to be train spotting mainly by the sound or by the feel of the control panel? The neat thing about DCC is that it eliminates a lot of the control panel aspect that our train layouts used to have - in your case that might be a different consideration.
How automated are you planning on making this? Automation with DCC often involves a computer. Then there are the decoders with the feedback that allows specific locos to have their location tracked. Both of which involves signalling and blocks on the track.
Good info and advice all…thanks. The layout size I knew would be an issue in HO but do want to stick with HO if possible. The room configuration is really going to be a 6’ x 13’ rectangle (actually wall to wall it’s 6’ 8" wide) with standard framed interior walls around. So I’d have some flexibility to design something that would operate the way I wanted to and still not be cramped.
The engines I am thinking of will probably be 4 axle early diesel jobs. Does the RS3 and GP38’s or thereabouts fit the time frame? Again, my branch will be a light to medium traffic road. Mostly local stuff.
My consists won’t be long and the cars are pretty standard fair…I’d be venturing a guess at 40 footers or so for the most part. The “operation” part of the layout would be dragging 4-5 oil tanks with the odd pair of coal hoppers or a freight car or two from my pumping station/coal dig. Maybe switch a couple of cars at the Gas Camp, then have RS3 or something run the consist over to Flora Vista where it will join a couple more oil cars headed to a refinery out around Farmington via a section of the Sante Fe mainline.
But I’d like to be able to just have a train running a continous loop with the option of jumping off onto the Flora Vista Branch (wow…I am already naming stuff…ha). There would be plenty of options to just run stuff back and forth between the three main locations and reasons to do so…moving crude oil, delivering some freight to both a small village and islolated “company housing camp”. I remember the kids from those places being really tough for some reason. Those camps were usually way out in the sticks (40-50 miles out of town…mostly on dirt roads) and they didn’t get to socialize much. ha.
Thanks for your service,and welcome back to this wonderful hobby. Lots of good advice from the previous posters. I do have a few things to add to your considerations. Seems to me that this should be a “Sit Down and roll around” kind of layout to your son to better participate without further strain upon his hips. That may increase your need for aisle space. Also, not sure how long you will be living in this space. I am a retired Army SFC so I do know a bit about moving. If that is your situation, I would consider building your layout in removable sections, each small enough to fit in a moving container. (I forget the interior dimensions of a moving container but I am sure Transportation can give that to you). I would also consider building the railroad in On30. The equipment is slightly larger than HO, but buildings are much larger (and more expensive). Since it is narrow gauge (Shorter) you can operate successfully on tighter radius and not have extreme overhang as with some of the longer HO equipment. The other issue is that you would be currently limited to Steam Locos and “Mini Diesels” commonly called “Critters”. Hope this helps more that it hurts and my all your trains ride the rails smoothly
Again, thanks for all the answers and brainstorming. All stuff that I am filing away in my planning folder. I believe that going HO in the size layout that I am thinking of (remember…I can go longer but not wider) is going to work. Using the 40" figure as a minimum width for any sort of dogbone (giving me 18" minimum curves) I believe I can adjust the footprint to fit my needs. I am thinking that by staggering the dog bones on either side (and maybe lengthening to 14 or 15 ft) I can get an aisle that works and stays no less than 24" wide and could be wider. So if you can picture this: It will be a dogbone, bent into a U (picture yourself standing facing the open end of the U). The “ends” of the U will be complete turnarounds…so must be at least 40" deep (and possibly would need to be 40x40?). To enable an aisle running the entire length (I have 80" of width in the room to work with) I could just stagger the ends. I am thinking have the end on the left start at that corner of the layout then have the other end staggered back deeper into the layout. I guess a trade off is that by staggering the ends I am going to lose some “mainline/continuous run” but I don’t think that kills it for me. Again, my trains are going to be fairly short, working consists. These little companies did not have much money to work with usually so they often did things cheap (whether they were railroads like my fictional outfit or just small oilfield companies of some other sort). Borrowed rolling stock pulling enough cars to pay the bills but not much more…which is why the good old grimey SD7s and SW type switchers and a few strings of 40’ ft oil tankers and open top (often still made of heavy lumber) coal cars. Some freight cars coming in off the mainline but not much. Those engines just reek working class to me. I’m thinking this
I have a 6 1/2 by 9 1/2 around the walls with a duck under in front ( 12 by 43)
Sides are 15 and 18.5 and front and back are 12 ( I wish I had gone with the one side at 24-30 but I was using existing sections and didn’t want to waste them )
It is still in the preliminary stages for scenery but the track is finished
22 and 24 radius mains
I like to watch them go round and round and don’t have a lot of side track etc but just enough to keep it from being too plain
On the loops of the this oval, yes it needs the 40" (min, it’s tight and needs guards to keep locos from doing the plunge) in depth, but in length it is only half a circle and would only need 22" or so. You would need to add another 20-22" when the track takes the next curve to come across the center. The biggest problem with curves is not being able to couple cars and do switching, at least easily. I would recommend instead of going CAD right off the bat, try grabbing a pad of graph paper and a compass. It will give you more flexibility in any adjusting you may want to do, and then plug it into a CAD program.
