Nice track plan, what software package did you use to create this layout?
You’re kidding right? My track plan sucks, I don’t have access to my yard. [B)]
I used the free software from Atlas called RTS.
Hmm, I’m thinking I’m thinking, what if I split the yard so I have access to at least 3 tracks on the near side that would be easily accessible, and the other 3 on the far side. And I’ll just limit my yard moves on the far side, maybe for storage. I could still use it, but I won’t have to duck under to the access hole as often.
Thoughts?
FYI
D&RGW Modern in Denver would be 1989 latest when they merged with the UP.
In the Modern Era Denver Union Station is now single sided station. All trains back into the Station from the east. The west exit (for southern heading trains) has been eliminated by the Pepsi Center Stadium.
That is not the North Yard. That would be the BNSF 31st street yard, formerly the CB&Q yard. The D&RGW North Yard is straight north of Union Station about a mile.
This is the North Yard:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=39.794754,-104.998398&spn=0.031061,0.049868&z=14
I know how you feel. I haven’t gotten far enough along to have such a feeling with my layout, but other aspects of life can do the same thing to you. Plan, plan, plan, then get started only to find it ain’t gonna work!! There are words for it, but I try not to get deleted.
You have been given a tremendous amount of information and are obviously putting it in your head and trying to work something out. I don’t have a sure solution, if there is such a thing, Since you have worked hard on your figure 8, is there a plan putting your yard where it is accessable and use your hard work? Put the two in place and see what you can arrange around it. Remember, people with a lot more experience than you have torn out their hard work and started over. You are not alone. I expect that when I get into my big room I will have to back up on occasion too. So far my small one has had a few minor changes, but I am coming to the point where I have to do some final planning and hope I don’t have to tear out too much.
Remember to have fun.
Good luck,
OK this is my salvaged solution, which looks fine to me.
I just got done laying out some track, and I was able to get 4 tracks on the near yard with plenty of access to all tracks, including the tail track at the bottom. I can also reach the engine house!
I will plan on building and breaking down cars on these 4 tracks.
Now I have two other yard tracks on the far side that I can still use, I will just limit the switching on those tracks. At least now I won’t be dong the “wack-o-mole” every 2 minutes! LOL
I should be OK now, I really do appreciate everyone’s input, I just wish I asked about this before I started, but now I know next time!!
Well, How about something like the picture below. With long straight tracks and magnetic delayed uncoupling there isn’t much need to “reach” the far end. Keep the curved parts, turnouts, and delayed uncoupling ramps within reach and let the others be out of reach. If there is a derailment or other issue it can then be reached from the hatch. That way you can keep your mountain loop around and still get a reasonable yard. It might even be better with the straight tracks rather than the curvy ones proposed earlier. The entrance will probably have to be with curved turnouts but that isn’t really a big deal.
[quote user=“Motley”]
OK this is my salvaged solution, which looks fine to me.
I just got done laying out some track, and I was able to get 4 tracks on the near yard with plenty of access to all tracks, including the tail track at the bottom. I can also reach the engine house!
I will plan on building and breaking down cars on these 4 tracks.
Now I have two other yard tracks on the far side that I can still use, I will just limit the switching on those tracks. At least now I won’t be dong the “wack-o-mole” every 2 minutes! LOL
I should be OK now, I really do appreciate everyone’s input, I just wish I asked about this before I started, but now I know next time!!
I, also, like Lee’s idea of getting rid of the useless, unrealistic figure 8, and moving the yard to the red area, as shown. Lee’s yard is next to the Union station,(as it should be). The tracks are of 15-18 car train length, and most important, all of the yard is within reach. The "center to center distance between HO yard tracks should be about 2+ inches,( not 4 inches, as shown). Each yard track should be able to hold, at least, 15-18 cars. With the “yard” out of the unreachable left, you might be able to “delete the lower left Access Hole, and shift the tracks and Gravel Mine to within a reachable distance. NW of the Union Station, he ,also proposes a “wye”, which will allow trains to reverse direction . It ,also, means that, if the outer mainline were closer to the inner line on the right and left upper parallel tracks, one might use double slip switch’s, (instead of single cross-overs), which would allow trains traveling in either direction, to cross over. With the use of “Automatic Reverse Modules”, on the wye, one does not need to use DPDT toggles, to change polarity. That is one of the advantages of going to DCC, in the first place. Admit it…You should not have constructed your bench work, before you had a definite plan for your layout track design. We all have had to reconstruct bench work, and rip out trackage, to remodel our own layouts. In order to install the 3’x6’ Ashland Iron & Steel complex, I had to remove my beloved round house and turn table… As the Kalmbach motto states " Dream-Plan-Build” (In that order) ! We are all trying to make your Model Railroading experience a happy one, with as few frustrations, as possible. One other idea, that I might suggest, is that I use a square of Luan, with a town glued to it, as a removable (or you might construct a shutter-like hinged), cover for the “access hole”. Another important issue , that none have discussed, is turnout “switch” motors. “Tortoise” slow motion switch motors are rather expensive,
Stein,
Can you diagram what your saying about straightening the yard out with single ended. Not sure I know what you mean.
Also, yes the figure 8 was a way of increasing the grade, creating a scenic route, as well as making the main line longer. I’m really stuck on that for some reason. I think it’s kick @ss looking.
But how will the engine break down and build only from the top? I thought I needed a runaround and tail track?
Like this?
Trains can be sorted in any order desired by pulling cars forward, throwing a switch/turnout behind the cars and pushing cars back onto another track. Repeat as needed until your cars are sorted. Then put them together on the same track in the order you want them for your outbound train.
Only thing you need a runaround for is to get the engine on the other side of the cars, if you want to push a car into a track where your engine would be caught between the car or cars and the end of the track.
You don’t have to have an escape track. Real railroads sometimes just let the engine get caught, and then used a second engine to pull the cars away (after the passengers had disembarked from the train), or just backed the entire train out again.
What works for your yard depends on how you intend to use it. You should first figure out how long trains you will be running and how much sorting (if any) you want to do in your yard.
Yes - that’s roughly what I meant. I would have moved the last two tracks over to the right of the hole as well - and just moved the hole if necessary. New holes can be cut, old ones can be patched.
But I think Lee’s proposal is the best yet.
Smile,
Stein
Thanks for the nod on my hastily scrambled together sketch!
Really, if the loopty loop is a critical piece of your vision, then Texas’ Zephyr’s approach to the yard works just fine. Pull the access to the yard from the track in the foreground to maintain easy access.
As far as foam scenery and grades are concerned, everything is recyclable. Carefully pry up the work already done and use it wherever else you need it.
Another possibility that will help visually separate the yard from the rest of the layout would be to drop it down an inch. In N scale, I have the luxury of space, and I would use a river to separate the yard from the rest of the layout.
Like so. In addition to taking into account the operational needs of the layout, you also have to keep in mind how the scenery is going to work. I think that’s at the root of the comments regarding the figure 8 section… It’s hard to visualize how that’s going to work scenically.
Lee
This follows the idea presented by Tex.
In this case, the yard is separated from the main visually by being set higher. Your mountain can run behind the yard, and your gravel pit can be moved up the left side to be accessed from the upper left pop-up.
I would also suggest that you relocated the scenic running loop back and on the hill, or toward the back corner, and keep as much of your switching operations out where you can easily get at them.
Lee
At this point, I just can’t bring myself to get rid of the figure 8 as well as the work put into it. So I am finished at this point, with the single ended yard with my last revision.
I would like to thank everyone for their well articulated and experienced help and suggestions with my situation.
btw, at least I have access to my yard now! (well, 90% of it).
Now, back to the construction…
If you don’t think you have time to do it right, what makes you think you have time to do it over?
[sigh]
I have to disagree there, that statement is based upon some assumptions I have no idea where they came from. Any one who has seen the D&RGW track climbing the mountains out of Denver to the west knows that on a 2.5 to 3% grade they do about everything BUT cross over each other. From the valley above the ESes look very much like a figure 8 interwoven on itself. I don’t find it all that “unrealistic” at all for the D&RGW. The bridge could even be modeled after the one that goes over coal creek canyon road.
Once again another incorrect assumption. In Denver there are now two yards somewhat close to Union Station. The 31st street and the North yard. Neither of them can be seen from the real Union Station and both are across the river. The Rice Yard (C&S / AT&SF) which was adjacent to the Union Station has been out of service for decades and all traces been eradicated for almost 15 years.
Here are a couple of loco’s on one of the yard leads. Tthere are two leads across this bridge in addition to the double track main. Union Station is about 1/2 of a mile behind and to the right of the photographer. Cannot even be seen from this location.
That is a wonderful idea if it can be worked in. In the real Denver there is a crossing of the main line (I am told at one time it was a quad diamond crossing) to get into Union Station from the North Yard. And there are two wyes. One for the UP and the other for the BNSF. Actually I think Union Station owns them or at least two legs of each.
In fact I just happen to
Texas, hey we are neighbors, we should meetup sometime! I live in Broomfield.
Wow, I did’t even realize how close I was to the prototype!
Can you edit my last revision with the wye? I’m not sure I can visualize how that will lead into the yard lead?
And I won’t have to reposition Union Station? And still keep my figure 8 as it is?
Thanks!
Oh, I didn’t notice your name said Colorado. So you haven’t been up Coal Creek canyon looking at the real track?
I don’t know. These things are often different in real life than they look on a drawing. Do you have the RTS file you could e-mail me?
Then if your interested I’ll have to include you in some of the local activities. This weekend there is going to be a track repair session on the Wind River, I don’t know if I’ll be helping as I’ve also been asked to help operate the Greeley Freight Station. But what I was really thinking of is the 3rd Friday of every month we operate the Wind River and there is an operating session down south (about C-470 & Broadway) that we car pool down to that might interest you.
I used to go up Coal Creek Canyon early on Saturday mornings and watch the Ski Train and Amtrak go up though the Eses and into tunnel #1. Here is a shot I got in 2007 when they were running the 1989 on the point of the ski train approaching tunnel #1.
Ya that’s really cool shot of coal creek canyon, I been there quite a few times as well.
I took some pictures of the layout, and what I have right now. I was able to connect the yard with the Union Station line. I think it works perfectly.
We should definately meetup, this weekend is no good though, but thanks for the invite. Let me know when you guys run again, I would love to check that out for sure!!!
The pics…