New Layout - New Subscriber - Helix... or no?

Model Railroader Layouts and layout building
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I’ve recently settled into a new home - permanently enough to tackle a new layout utilizing half of a double bay garage in HO scale. Due to the location of the automatic garage door openers & chains on the ceiling, the available divided space is about 20’ X 8’. I’ve framed this space in to segregate it from the workshop space, and to be able to insulate & heat the layout room without heating the great Canadian outdoors through the garage doors.

Given the space limitations, I am toying with the idea of 2 or 3 levels to maximize the mainline run, but am concerned about the space a helix would eat up. I’m running modern equipment, so would like to maintain broad 30" radius curves & have continuous running. My initial options/thoughts are as follows:

  • Narrow linear shelf style around the walls with a helix tucked into one corner. This allows for ample aisle room & maximum running, but I really think a duckunder or lift/swing bridge would be inconvenient.

  • Long freestanding “island” in middle of room that you can follow all around. I would frame a floor to ceiling backdrop/divider wall down the center to separate scenes and to support the levels. The helix would be contained inside the “island” (behind the backdrop) at one end, and the other end would simply circle back on each level. This would result in a dogbone shape and only allow 18" aisle space between the walls and the widest portion of the curves. Allowing a 2’ aisle at each end would permit the “island” to be about 16’ long, which I estimate would provide about 100’ of exposed mainline if there were 3 levels. The bonus in this situation would be not needing to worry about electrical panels, built in vacuums etc… that would be obstacles on the walls.

I welcome any input or suggestions (pros/cons) from the wise who have been there & done that. Especially feedback about helixes. I had reasonable success previously with my own design that was separated by wood dividers, but I’ve also seen t

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OK… let’s get this out of the way first… Helix complexes are almost as much of a space hog as a near full circle round house.

Additionally… if you EVER think you might want to scenic your railroad… they are nearly impossible to hide for what they are.

After that… how tall are you… If you are vertically challenged… as I am… don’t consider three levels as you will never complete what you cannot easily get to … nor will you operate in a place that is tough to get to.

We are creatures of least inconvenience… path of least resistance… any time I have ever built some piece of my railroad that was hard to operate… I never used it.

So where do you want to go REALLY with your railroad ? ? ?

see ya

Bob

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If the garage door opener & chain prevent the trainroom wall from going to “half”, then can you use part of that space for part of the helix?

In other words, have the helix partially stick out of the room into what’s left of your “claim.”

That way, the helix won’t be eating up a huge 5 1/2’ diameter circle inside the train room, but perhaps only a 2’-3’ semi-circle, which could we worked into the sceney.

Or do you have the space to center the helix on an inside corner, so only 1/4th is in the trainroom and 3/4th arcing around the outside corner.

This would involve making adjustments to your wall (and custom wrap the outside of the helix), but it frees up more space inside.

Another option is to have a “nolix” climb the walls between two levels: a track that rises as it goes around the walls (turns the whole room into a helix).

That way you could have each of two shelf levels continuous running and the nolix connecting as a branch / interchange.

You could have trains continuously running from one level to the next, and have the turnback loops on each level aligned over each other to minimize space hogging.

Modern stuff is longer stuff so you probably want as broad of curves as possible.

Most important: when you walk into you empty trainroom and image running trains on your “finished” layout, what do you see?
A lot of shelves and blobs with narrow aisles to maximize layout?
A large central space in the center for operators to watch trains run all around the room?

Don’t forget you can use the outside of the trainroom wall under the garage door opener for shelves of staging for each level that “punch through” the wall.
Covering them with plexiglass will keep the dust & snow off.

Anyway, food for thought.

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Where is the door into the train room? (or put another way, can you provide a floor plan?)

If you want continuous running you are going to have to go around the room (thus duck under or lift section) or have some sort of dog bone or waterwing design. (I keep going back an forth on this with my own layout planning).

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Robb…

Have a similar situation here down south (but thankfully no winter of note to deal with). We do not have a basement, so a garage layout was the only option - allowed for a 10 ft x 13 ft space and given the area I wanted to model I have gone with a helix on the branchline, which is the focus of the RR. The helix is in and works - and the grade on it is less than the ruling grade on the branchline. But, getting back to your space.

The freestanding island idea you will not work with a 30in min radius -even allowing for 18 inch aisle. The best you could realize is around a 26 or 27 in radius. However, assuming an entry to the space near one corner along the 8 ft wall, you can fit in a rough J-shaped RR design with 24 inch aisles in one place that can provide a continous run of about 90 feet or so using the 30 in min. radius - and there is no need for a duckunder. Yes you could fit in a helix in one of the blobs (of the two blobs you can fit in) and the second deck would give you more RR. But, I’m not sure about 3 decks - it seems a bit much to me, and you need to think about maintaining the beast over time.

But before you do this - would the effort involved yield you the RR you want? If so then go for it. In my case it provided me a RR that I could not otherwise attain in the available space - especially considering the key elements of the branchline I model.

Good luck!

Charles

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My room is just about the same size as yours. Mine is 9 x 24. (I model HO scale.)

I built around the walls, single mainline that goes around the room twice. I also have an upper level that uses a no-lix to get to it. A no-lix is a type of helix that is opened up. I also have four lift bridges that cross two doors. I have some links for layout progress photos and a page on how to build the Lift-Bridges.

It may be worth looking at what I have so far. http://www.waynes-trains.com/site/HO/C&A-Main-Page.html

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[:-^]

Just a thought Robb,

There should be no reason that you couldn’t build a false ceiling in the train room ( just below the door tracks plus space for the door on those tracks )and an end wall and have the garage door go over top of the ceiling. I have not done this but looking at my double garage I can see how this would work fine. This would keep that cold damp Pacific air from rushing in when the little Lady takes her car in and out.

Johnboy out…for what it is worth.

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Thanks kindly to everyone who has replied so far. Lots of helpful information, and ideas to consider. I find it amazing that so many perfect strangers would go out of their way, and take the time to respond with solutions. I hope to pay it forward in the near future. What a great community, forum and hobby!

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Thanks E!

Very similar space, and your photos really help to envision the “around the walls” option in a room that size. Hard to picture when it’s empty. I’ve heard of the Nolix and have considered it, but think I might want the transition between levels to be disguised. Mind you, I suppose it could be kept tight to the walls, hidden by a fold down backdrop for maintenance & derails. That way, bits of it could be exposed at strategic locations and include scenery. Otherwise it’s out of sight, providing true scale miles (kilometers in my case) between levels. This certainly takes the daunting mass of a real helix out of the equation.

I’ll check out your bridges, which may firm up the decision.

Thanks again!

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First off, [#welcome] welcome aboard.

One key question: What is the planned length of your longest train?

If the answer is 12 feet or less, it would be possible to hide a train elevator along that 20 foot wall, with access to both ends at each level and (with a little finagling) run-through capability on top and bottom levels when the elevator isn’t in use. It would only eat about six square feet, compared to about thirty square feet for a concealed helix. (For either helix or elevator, the top level can be left visible.) For a three level elevator the tricky part will be guaranteeing rock-solid alignment at the half-way level.

My double garage filler incorporates a train elevator and two one-turn helices - but my trains are short, my curves are much sharper than those you specified and my helices share benchwork space with tracks used for other purposes. The elevator car' is a 56.5 inch length of narrow steel stud, and it's operated from one end only as part of an empties in/loads out’ arrangement at a colliery which is located on the highest level of track on the layout.

You might reconsider the, “No swinging gate,” edict in your post. Aligning a swinging gate is no more difficult than aligning a door, and it will ease the aisleway situation. I had included one in my plans when I was only using half my double garage, but the need went away when I got my wife’s stall. (Nice thing about Southern Nevada - you don’t have to shovel sunlight.)

Above all, have fun.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - in 1:80 scale, aka HOj)

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I just built a large single turn helix largely for the experience and because I wanted a large mountain with tunnel portals which could double as a helix container. Mine is 6’ in diameter with 35" curves and 4" overhead clearance. It is very large, and commands the 11’ X 21’ loft over our garage. Here is a photo:

A helix with litle else to justify it than to raise trains to another level is much better placed aside to free the space for useful operations. As I said, mine has multiple uses, including providing the tail of a turning wye and affording access to sub-terranean staging. That last one means there are two levels in total to the helix, with one providing the operational part of the rise. Also, all I get out of that single level are four inches…hardly something to crow about considering all the work that went into it. Add three more layers to get the height you would want for a true two-level layout…now you are talking about a serious encroachment in the visible volume of the layout room, and how to you hide it?

I am not trying to dissuade you, but pointing out considerations in case they help you to make up your mind. Even though I have this helix, I also run around the room effectively with a twinned main, and that include across the access sliding door frontage. Means this:

I consider this a very small impediment to getting all I want out of my style of operations…watching trains run while I fiddle, maybe do some yard switching, etc.

I like switchbacks, but they take long runs of tracks. If you don’t necessarily want to make them scenicked, but just get you to different levels, then you can make them simple and lean. Just some brackets, 1X4, and the trackage.

BTW, I am in Comox.

Crandell

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Thanks for the pix. They do eat up space don’t they? My first helix in the other house was similar to yours, but wrapped quite a few times. It allowed a rise of almost 24" between levels with a max 2.5%. Considering some ideas from previous posts including the “false ceiling” room extension underneath the door openers, as well as the “Nolix” idea, but hiding the transitional trackage behind a slide out or drop down backdrop for easy maintenance & derails. I’d like the levels to retain a serious scale “mileage” separation, thus disguising the track between. Your 1x4 on brackets suggestion would suffice (all the way around the room on a grade between levels) with card stock painted to match the backdrop attached to the front of it, tall enough to hide the trains & brackets. I agree that any operational space savings is more valuable than a helix if it can be avoided.

Is that some kind of spray foam? And is it along the edges of your roadbed… or is it the actual subroadbed with the roadbed sunken into it? Can’t tell by the photos.

I’m just across the big city in Cumberland! Good to know it’s not just me wishing we had a hobby shop in the valley.

Robb