At first I was going to pass on joining the LGB Club as I did not see enough benefits to justify the price to me.
After thinking about it I decided to join because among other things it is the membership that truly determines the value of a club and of a forum.
I run a lot of trains made by a lot of different manufacturers and I joined several forums because it is nice to exchange ideas with folks who have used various products interchangeably.
I appreciate the comments by Dave Snow:
"I can state here with confidence that those who are running for the various positions on the new Board, and I have the list of candidates which will be published in our next issue of the Big Train Operator magazine, have no hard feelings against LGB or their representatives. I hope and welcome the participation by LGB and/or LGBoA to promote their products, submit articles on such things as their MTS system, for publication.
The negative opinions of the few, and trust me when I say it’s the few, are not the opinions of the officials of the Big Train Operator Club, Inc. My goal, as an Officer of the BTOC, is to promote and propel our club forward and be a partner with all the other largescale websites, clubs and organizations, to promote the largescale hobby. "
Because of Dave I might be inclined to join BTOC. Previous comments by BTOC members that were derogatory about LGB were a strong deterrent to my wanting to join as it is no fun belonging to forums or clubs that seem to thrive on picking on someone or some company.
Negative comments about LGB here and on other forums are a primary reason why I am joining the LGB Club and will participate in the LGB Forum (as well as others).
I simply don’t understand those who don’t like LGB or don’t want to join the club (for whatever reason) taking pleasure out of telling the world about what they perceive to be wrong with LGB (or Aristo or Bachmann or whatever).
That is precisely the reason there are plenty of clubs, plenty of fora and more manufacturers as the years go by.
For my taste I don’t need to belong to the LGB Club because they don’t offer enough for my money. Someone mentioned the tours being an instant pay back; well only if you join the tours.
The only tour I’ve been on in recent memory is the “100 years - 100 hours RhB Tour” in 1989. Of course that was organized by the RhB, revolved around the RhB and most everyone on the tour was highly interested in the RhB.
Other than that I organize my own tour, stop where I find things of interest , get to talk with people who you wouldn’t get to talk to on a tour etc. etc. etc.
But basically my point is: there is a lot more to Large Scale than LGB and pointing out that fact helps any and all of the newcomers. Especially those who step up from the smaller scales and really haven’t “played” with trains in many years, like all those people who consider themselves model railroaders.
They simply wouldn’t consider squeezing a GG-1 or a Mikado through the equivalent of a HO 7.5" radius.
I will look forward to seeing your name on my monthly new member list that I receive from our membership chairman.[;)] I’ve always looked at a half a glass of water and say that it was half full, rather then half empty[:)] Thank you for the kudo’s[:I]
Okay, Dave, you have addressed my concerns and you can count on getting another member. I’ll be happy to join the BTOC as well as the new LGB club. I’m always interested in gaining information from as many diverse sources as possible, so it sure can’t hurt to join both groups.
I’m still having a hard time understanding the animosity some seem to feel toward LGB, at least as expressed on this and some other forums (as don the “Yes, Virginia, there is LGB at the North Pole” thread here, to cite just one example). LGB spurred the hobby of garden railroading in the U.S., has always offered high-quality products, and provides, along with Marklin, what I believe to be the best service of anyone in the Large Scale segment of the hobby. I’m just not sure what they might have done to earn the kind of treatment I see displayed by some participants here and elsewhere (obviously few in number, but quite vocal). I suppose that’s why I use the term “sour grapes”–I can’t logically attribute it to anything other than a “my brand is better” kind of mentality. I see enough of the “brand wars” kind of thing in O gauge, and really hate to see that small-minded perspective invade what has traditionally been the most friendly and accepting segment of model railroading.
The LGB Club - complete with “Members Only” forum - will be an advantage; fewer threads on other fora to explain the difference between gauge and scale, that not all DCC systems are created equal and that Code332 along with 600mm minimum radius is not mandatory in the garden.
As mentioned once or twice: as the “boomer wave” rolls on there will be plenty of model railroaders joining the Large Scale fraternity. If they will enjoy a relative regression to the “good old days” of the 60s and 70s - WOW look at the size of the rail and the flanges! Hey, this I call “sturdy detail”, it is all molded right to the body! - remains to be seen, but I doubt it very much if the people I meet in shops and at shows are any indication.
It’s hard to sell less proto-fidelity in Large Scale when the sheer size makes things that much easier. As always strictly my opinion.
BTW for those who suspect “sour grapes” in posts/threads; you want “sour grapes” go check out LGB’s reaction at the 2005 Nürnberg Toy Fair when they discovered BRAWA’s surprise. [;)][;)][;)]
Come of HJ I loved the scenery but what about explaining all the initials.
You know when I use words that I think all don’t understand (i put a little explanation in brackets afterward) I think not to do so is not in the spirit of good communication. Just because something is familiar to you, it doesn’t mean that others from the other side of the world have any idea what you are talking about.
Reading the different threads on the “North Pole adventure”, I was waiting for someone to point out to you that one catches more flies with honey than with vinegar. [;)][;)]
Which is undoubtedly true, [:)][:)] what some of those who harp about the “negativity” conveniently forget is that apparently even more flies are caught / attracted by bullshi*t.
But hey: “C’est la vie”.[;)][:)][:D][:D]
I for one LOVE LGBs stuff , I just can’t afford alot of it. But that doesnt mean I’m kicking it. I would like to point out that while my post was sarcastic about the benifits, it was taken from a realistic viewpoint of cost-vs-benifits for me. Considering that 60% of my stuff is non-LGB but Bachmann, HLW, or MDC, and that the LGB products that I do have is limited to Porters, Cowtrains, and Stainzs, would the cost of $56 for an organization thats likely be much more oriented towards the Swiss and German RR prototypes that ARE the majority of LGB’s products be a worthy investment for me? I came to the conclusion that NO it wouldnt be. [V]
Personally I have nothing againt LGB. I wish I could buy more of the big ticket items but thats just not going to happen short of 6 lucky numbers on a lotto ticket. [:o)]
Where I have had problems is with some users and sellers of LGB and their attitude of “its LGB or Nothing, everything else is [censored]”, the Red Box Brigade, Not all users or sellers are this way but I have encountered enough to be wary at dealers and to watch my P’s and Q’s at LGB only booths at shows. Early on in my Newbie days I had been given a hard time for liking Bachmann, so far as getting really PO’d at a guy who gave me a hard time for even thinking of buying a Bachmann Porter (which I did and never had a problem with) and just couldnt understand WHY I didn’t want an LGB Mogul instead (something about the $75 Porter -vs- the $750 Mogul just didnt register in his head). [:0]
So my comments were not about LGB as an organizing element
I think Vic’s got it! In my experiance 99% LGBers are a religious cult! They don’t want to hear, see, or have anything to do with it if it isn’t LGB! You don’t run LGB, You might just as well be floating in the terlet (Archie Bunker)!
I think that the vaunted reliability is debateable, however, for my taste, even thier renderings of American prototypes have a distinctly European flavor; and that in itself creates a distaste for the product in my eye! That is a purely personal observation and opinion; one that is open to change when I percieve change in the way the product strikes me!
Now, getting back to the subject matter; even if I were enamoured of LGB, at those $$$ for what is offered I would pass!
There is nothing wrong with LGB, except the price. There is also nothing wrong with Aristo-craft, of which I have a great deal and to date have nothing but good things to say about it and had zero problems. I also have B’mann locos and cars, also nothing bad to say, zero problems. If I were to afford LGB, I’m sure I would have nothing bad to say and zero problems, only an empty bank account to show for it.
Bravo, Vic, you said it better than I could, it’s the tenor of the users, not the product itself. I’ll save my $56.00 and buy some nice Aritso-craft or B’mann cars. The LGB club is certainly one of those niche markets, you either support it or you don’t. Personaly I won’t support it because it does nothing for me, but I won’t bad mouth anybody who does, in fact, I say go for it, join up and enjoy your product!
As you can see Jack Lynch (on this and other boards kown as “Bucksco”) is also the LGB Club Representative for North America; Jack’s full time job is Mark
He passed it on to me since he figured that I wanted to sign-up right way (if not sooner) [:D][:D].
I also received the same stuff from LGB in Nürnberg via snail mail, together with what is new and exciting and available apart from the previous announcements.
Well, there was nothing there fitting my requirements, but I appreciate getting the stuff. Perhaps there will be some more RhB stuff soon, that fits my era and line.
I guess I just don’t get it. I’ve never been able to understand the concept of “brand loyalty”. Brand preference, yes, but loyalty? It’s not limited to toy trains either. Consider the PC vs. Mac wars or Windows vs. UNIX or Chevy vs. Ford or Marines vs. Navy ……………… you can fill in the blanks. Are we so desperate to belong to some group, any group, that so many of us are drawn into this cult mentality? And along with this absurd infatuation comes a hatred of the opposing product or group. How in the hell can someone HATE an inanimate object like a car or operating system?
My advice to these folks is, get a life. Look around and find something that’s worthy of your loyalty like a religion or political party. And even there be careful of the zealots who will try to convince you that theirs is the ONLY way, because it’s not. The answer to most differing viewpoints is somewhere in the middle.
But be wary of my advice as well because it’s coming from someone who uses both PC’s and Mac’s, owns three different brands of cars, is agnostic, is a registered independent voter, and listens to both Rush and Air America (Rush is a conservative talk show host and Air America is a liberal radio station).