Join the discussion on the following article:
New M-8 commuter cars entering service on Metro-North
These cars are being built at Kawasaki’s plant in Nebraska NOT a third world country.
I believe the cars they are replacing are the M3’s NOT the M7’s. The M7’s replaced the original M1’s on the MTA.
To answer William D Hays question, the unionized labor costs in New York prevent any sane company from starting up a manufacturing facility. Let’s face reality. The Japanese are not stupid, unlike the union workers blindly following the trail of smoke blown by their leaders. The unions priced themselves out of the global market. Never mind all the strings that come attached to the unions.
Last time I checked, Lincoln, Nebraska is not out in the middle of a vast wasteland, unlike New York City. Nebraska farmers are quite productive. Can’t say the same for the occupants of New York City. I speak with authority as I have been to both locations and have made notes of the time it takes to load 50 lb bags of popcorn into a trailer in Nebraska (30 minutes) vs the time it takes to unload palletized bottled water in Queens (8 hours).
I wouldn’t call Japan third world. Most of their machine tools are between as good as and better than anything built by Americans, Germans, Swiss, or anybody else, depending on what type of machine tool is up for discussion.
I think you mean that they are replacing the M-2 cars, which have been in service since the 70’s. The M-7 cars are the most modern, state-of-the-art cars which are used on both
Metro-North and the Long Island Rail Road. The M-7 cars are similar to the M-8’s in door arrangement and seating, but run on third rail power only. The M-8’s can run both from third rail and from overhead catenary.
These cars are very badly needed, and cannot arrive and enter service soon enough. The M7s (6’s?) are not doing well in the tropical weather these days.
I wonder about the Yonkers question myself. That said, they are beautiful and badly needed.
Why weren’t these cars built in Yonkers, NY instead of the hinterlands or a third-world country by a ‘Furrin’ outfit?
Kawasaki may not be an American-based company, but it has
created over 1,200 good paying American jobs for Lincoln, Nebraska. Plus a top-notch state-of-the-art light rail manufacturing plant addition in the last few years.
The cars are not built in Yonkers because the state of NY has the highest business taxes on both the properties and the product. That is especially true for anything rail related because you can’t just pick up and move it. Next Nebraska is centrally located to get supplies and ship to either coast. The costs are lower because in NY every union that exists will look for it’s piece of the pie plus the “juice” to get anything done. “Been there and worked there”.
A person has to be terribly uninformed or trying to make a bad joke to call Japan a third world country.
Ok Guys - Here we have a good news rail story and you all have to go off making like buffoons with political harangues made worse by geographic and other ignorance. Let’s start with Mr. Hays of Montana (presumably part of the “hinterlands” he refers to) Japan is not a Third World Country…it is a high tech industrial powerhouse. Mr. Guse of Illinois: FYI Yonkers is NOT in New York City…it is the first city in NY State above the Borough of The Bronx. New York is part of the Rust Belt - like Illinois (people who live inglass houses…etc.) - for lots of reasons that might or might not center on union wages. (Having busted my butt both as a non and union worker I can vouch that unions keep one from getting shafted. There was nothing wrong and everything right with the union movement in the US…it created the Middle Class and the American Century…what killed the economies of the “unionized” states was the greed of investors who realized that the largest component of production is labor. If you can figure out a way to have less workers getting paid less to do more your profits increase. So, Wall Street exported jobs to Sri Lanka, Haiti, Mexico, etc. where labor costs are cheap. ) As for NY City or any part of NY State being in a vast “wasteland” I would commend Mr. Guse to look outside the window of a train going through Chicago’s South Side, or visit a rail yard in East St. Louis, IL. (Last time I went to a yard there I had to be escorted by UP Corporate Police.) In any case, six months ago when I dropped a few hundred bucks on the NY economy as I steamed in and out of NY Harbor - the center of this "vast wasteland"on a cruise ship I saw a revived Erie Lackawanna Terminal, scores of high rises and all sorts of indicators of economic activity on both the NY City and NJ sides of the river. As for comparing loading times of popcorn and bottled water - having done stuff like that with trucks and 40 foot box cars both as I non-union laborer and as a manager o
Jeffery Guse is right on the money in his comments on unions. The unions and their Democrat allies have all but killed any thought of new manufacturing facilities in the northeast. Good for Lincoln Nebraska. Their nonunion productivity makes the cars less expensive and better built.
All very interesting comments so far…obviously some political…given the times and how public transit entities must get their funding. But…I submit this: why has this country lost its edge in railcar (powered or unpowered) manufacturing? Virtually all the light rail systems use foregin products. Given the expansion and or renovation of passenger rail as a means to move people…why have we lost the ability to design and produce such vehicles?
I know…the pundits will say UNIONS…while others will argue very little profit and return on investment. But this is country that had Pullman Standard, Budd, American Car and Foundry
etc etc…
( Sheesh: we’ve even lost the ability to develop a major electric locomotive…again)
In any event…bravo to Metro North for securing their new fleet…at least they are fully aware of the need to keep improving their product…OK, so it’s foreign designed…assembled with US sweat.
And hey- they are really cool…and look great!
Mark A. Carolla, you sure said a mouthful - and well, too.
The Yonkers plant is getting very busy again with new and remanufactured cars for the Flushing Line under contract R-34188 (Car designation R188). The first new-built R188 (7811) is sitting at Kawasaki in Yonkers right now. Also, the old Otis Elevator plant in Yonkers is not really big enough to do full scale manufacturing and testing. Car shells have to be delivered from Japan or Nebraska and assembled, whereas Lincoln can do all the work themselves. Several completed M8s did, in fact, come through Yonkers early on when that facility was working on the R160 order and the PA5 order for PATH.
As for New York being bad for manufacturing, tell that to Bombardier and Volvo (Prevost Car/Nova Bus) who both opened up plants in Plattsburgh.
It is common for subway and commuter car purchases in NY to have a built in NY requirement, so at least some of the work is done in state.
I wonder if these M8s have the same horrible narrow seats with hard rocks in the headrest (MTA’s idea of lumbar support) along with the also carved from rock pants ripper arm rests as the LIRR M7s?