New starting layout in the backyard...

KEEP IT SIMPLE is good advise but have a larger concept in mind and plan your layout in such a way that additions can be made without a lot of rebuilding. We ran a simple figure eight for the first six years then expanded our line into the remaining space. You say that you have limited space, don’t let that stop you from planning your utimate empire. We run four car trains up 5% grades using a Bachmann Big Hauler on the head end with no trouble unless the rails are wet then the drivers tend to slip. So a few grades in your track plan needn’t be avoided unless you run live steam then a level track works best.
Good luck with your planning topbarhive.

May all your weeds be wild flowers…OLD DAD

OLD DAD:

I would appreciate an elaboration on why you think Live Steam is fussier about level track.

My experience is quite the opposite.

My Aster C&S will pull a 5 car consist up a 7% grade with NO problem. The sheer power of steam and the weight of the loco not only gives strong pulling power, but the traction capability to handle the pull. I have no doubt it will pull up to a dozen cars before showing signs of breathing hard.

The real nemesis in Live Steam traction is OIL on the track, not the grade or even small amounts of water. Steam oil simply boils off thru the exhaust and machine oil can drip from the valve gears. Both CAN contaminate the rails. Generally tho,…

…and no offense to the sparkers, but I’ve yet to see any sparkie that can outpull a steamer of equal size. Even match it.

If your steamer is pulling THAT poorly, you need to go back and re-examine your assembly of the steam chest. Particularly the admission valve area and/or the integrity of the needle steam valve itself where it seats. Ensuring good free motion in the valve gear assembly are also a good checkpoints since this is where the very timing itself is regulated and can result in poor power if not timed properly with regard to TDC (Top Dead Center). True Walchaerts or Stephenson combination levers are usually eliminated in “G” scale locos due to size, so the timing at the eccentric becomes more critical.

I wrote a very in-depth article on this almost 4 years ago and published it to the web. If you would like a copy, let me know and I’ll email it to you.

vsmith has a copy.

But I’d still like to hear your experirnces.

P.S.

I’ve also found that running the steamer out in the rain actually IMPROVES the size of the plume. Wow.

I have not started with my layout yet as I am still in the process of purchasing enough track to start. I have planned an elevated 40 x 25 foot garden for my railroad because the back is not so good anymore. I have seen crusher dust here in New Zealand and stuff that is called Pavelock which I am also going to experiment with, I believe is has a tiny bit of cement in it, which I think would be great for holding the track firmly in place. You guys in the States have it lucky with the free “Beginning Garden Railroading” book available.

Regards, Rob

Odd. I’ve found that the larger the scale, both the easier it is to maintain track level and the less it is fussier with uneven trackwork, which does make for an interesting ride, provided that it is not too uneven. But then, I only have my test track constructed so far.

I have an advantage of having an old quarry on my site with a good selection of grades in gravel that I could use, and using a screen to select the fines and course grades usually does me well. Has anyone worked with any additives that can be added to provide a stronger base? Not exactly cement, as this is too permanent in nature. Calcium Cloride or something like it. I had not bothered to get it yet, as my line is hardly to that stage.

I’m still having fun with the bobcat.

I confess to not being a chemist , but isn’t Calcium Chloride a Salt? If so, would it not cause lots of corrosion … I’m finding that a 4inch trench (deep) filled with small stone works well. I’m using crushed shale. Crusher fines carry alot of fine material that sets up like cement but can be broken apart easily if need be. It seems that any small stone with “tooth” works well, by “tooth” I mean that the stone is not round, which would be displaced easily. Still having fun with the Bobcat? Geez, I’ve only got squirrels… O.K. I know , small front end loader. Yepper, no home should be without one, 'specially with kids ![:D]

An interesting discussion.

I know from prior readings and discussion with OLD DAD he does things I would not have thought possible. But it is obvious that his methods regarding elevated track go against what I had been taught earlier, but seem to work superbly for him. For me, I’m going to consider him the prime authority on the subject since he also lives in a colder clime than I do.

My method has always been pretty much the same as is done in the “real” full sized world. I TOTALLY endorse the crusher fines method, and even most specificly, Lava Crusher fines. It’s not cheap, but when I’m done I walk on my track heel to toe and it stays firmly in place. I trench a little deeper than described above, and may cut back to 6 or 8 inches on my next lay just to see.

I had a far larger drainage problem in Hawaii than I now have in NM, and may not need as deep a trench to deal with it.

We meet again Mr. Vettbass,

I’m not sure if I want to be the “prime authority” on elevated track…if I make a mistake everyone will pick on me…then I’ll feel bad…do you want that on your conscience.
But thank you for your vote of confidence anyway.

Now, about level track for the oil dumpers (steamers ) My reference to level track working best for live steam had nothing to do with pulling power I was thinking of the run-away problem steamers have had on my many grades. Didn’t mean to slight the “puffers”.

All this steam talk reminds me of an incident that happened about six or seven years ago.
One of our members was about to run his steamer so I ran my sparker on to a side track and zeroed-out the Aristo-craft R/C hand held throttle. After the steamer had finished running I tried to bring my sparker back onto the main line…NOTHING!!!
My transmitter was fried.
Apparently the Aristo-Craft throttle doesn’t zero-out completely and the steamer didn’t have insulated wheels…you guessed it, SHORT CIRCUIT.

I sent my unit to Arist-Craft explaining what happend and they sent back a brand new unit with no questions and no charge.

Now I unplug my power pack whenever a steamer runs just to be safe.

Don’t burn your fingers…OLD DAD

OLD DAD:

Yeah, I’ve brought up the insulated wheel issue before on other threads here.

Most steamers these days are insulated at the “tire” level. A contact ring of metal to the rail, insulated and then slipped over the wheel hub. This mostly for the Drivers. For the trucks, often the wheel is insulated where the hub joins the axle.

Either way, and both are used depending on model quality, it prevents a wheel/axle assembly from ever completing an electrical circuit thereby shorting out the track itself.

Most concientious makers these days KNOW that a steamer MAY want to have powered track for other reasons like accessories, OR be able to run on a sparker’s layout.

I am starting a new layout in the backyard. We have lots of big natural rocks that the pike will run thru and over. My question is about running track on flat sections of rock. Will I need to chisel out a trackbed over these sections. Also I will be building long sections of trestle works. Any info on trestle and bridge construction would be appreciated.

T.Ranes

I’ll take the bridge and trestle question first.
I use Redwood because it has a natural resistance to rot. If you own a table saw try ripping your own “timbers”, if not, I believe 1/2 or 3/4 inch sq. Redwood stakes are available at garden supply stores (if any are open this time of year).

Now for the rocks…unless you enjoy REAL BACK BREAKING WORK find another way to level your track as it runs over the rocks. Maybe miniature stone retaining walls to even out the tops of the large rocks. Or try to find a route that avoids any problem rocks.

I hope this helps…OLD DAD

Hi new Garden Rail Fan,

I am also new to GR, 6 mos into it. Suggestion start with one or two test circles
which will be incorporated into the final design. This will give you an opportunity
to get the ‘bugs" out and where I am we have them. Refine your trackwork, electrics,
grading skills. Choose track which needs little maintenance, this is a major
problem in GR. I choose SS, waited for some pieces, but very happy with the
choice. Bolt together EVERY section, run leads EVERY 15 to 20’ with #12 wire.
and you will have flauless operation. If possible raise your layout from 1 to 2’
this helps with drainage and provides a better view. If I remember VT soil is
tuff to dig in, its easier to go up with a few yards of ‘bank run soil’. Good Luck!!

Hello all,I too am still in the planning stages of my railroad. I had a rather large HO road in the basement but had moved into a house without the basement that we had before so it was one of those more room out than in that got me in this. I was very interested in the replys that everybody wrote and hope to get something started this spring.

I to am in Queensland and I to use crusher fines i pay about $6.00 for 100 litres. it is great stuff and I dont care if it is damp or dry it is easy to put down and does in fact set like concrete but it isn’t like concrete as it will wash away I mis raw cement with it and it atys put. If you cannot buy it retail try a local quarry it is an unwanted by product and they may pay you to take it away.

Regards

Ian

I’m planning a layout at ground level. But what provision should I make for draining water? If I dig a trench won’t it fill with water?
I am thinking that I should raise the level to about six inches above the ground level and provide 2 inches pipe holes through it every 20 feet. Does anyone have any experience of doing this?

Hey! Topbarhive,
Welcome to GRRing. It’s been a year since you posted your question so I hope you are well on your way with your RR. From your response you seem to be close enough to Burl., I suggest you attend the Vt. flower show the last week of this mo. (FEB). Look up any one of the VT. Garden RRers that will have an operating layout on display. They will be glad to sign you up as a member but also can suply you with any info you need.
Good Luck
Maybe I’ll see you there!!!

There are a few easy things you can do. one is to raise the ballast roadbed like you said but using a trench gives the water a place to go. without a trench you risk your ballast getting washed away or sinking fast into the soil.

if your talking about a solid raised roadbed like concrete or wood then you will need to provide for drainage holes at the appropriate low spots or bridges to allow water under.

it really depends on the slope and terrain, if its hilly then washout is a problem, flat then pooling becomes an issue.

the best solution seams to be using a trench under the ballast where a perferated drain pipe is installed. the water is captured by the drain . the biggest hastle with this system is you almost need to be a grading engineer to get the slopes in the pipe correct and there has to be somewhere for the water to drain to. not easy on a flat suburban lot.

My idea was to build my layout in a raised planter above the grass about 12" so the trench ballast and rails were always “above” any point where pooling could occur.

Hellow topbarhive ! If you are going anywere near the Burlington Mall , why don’t you go to Charles Ro in malden? Just go to there web site! They are located off of Rt 60 in Malden ! If you do go talk to Sue! They do have a couple of books and GGGGGGGG trains all over the place! They even have an operating lay out up stares, that runs on friday and saturday!

A year into my little garden layout and I find one thing I would definately change… raise the track up from ground level. As VSmith had suggested, a "planter type " foundation bringing the track to 6-8 inches above ground level (the whole layout area) boardered by landscape ties, natural rock or whatnot and then filled with soil would have been ideal. OLD DADs method of a completely raised track has it’s merits also, looks like Horses for Courses. I have been able to run all winter here in "Jersey, broomed off the snow, put on an extra vest and steamed away. I used a trench filled with crushed shale, drainage was no problem, no frost heave, track expansion-contraction has been noticeable but minimal. ( allow your track to float, also, some space between sections, dimes width, seems to work for me) Continuing “Manifest Destiny”, expansion plans for track will continue to use trench and fill without plastic edging, but with a wider right-of-way. Good luck to you all this spring, have fun and start reasonable, your milage may vary…

Hey Danny;

Where abouts in Queensland are you its a mighty big place, I am on Kawana island on the Sunshine Coast. iandor@bigpond.com

Regds Ian; Kawana island tropical railway