Various threads across the net have detailed the success that is the construction of the ‘Tornado’. I have nothing but admiration for our fellow foamers across the pond for doing what the ‘experts’ said was impossible. Question is, if they can do it, why can’t we?
Regards,
Burlington John
PS - Sign me up for a CB&Q M4 clone …
Why? Because it is still more economical to rebuilt or overhaul preserved steam locomotives that have had only cosmetic restoration or to buy locomotives that are basically similar to USA power from China. Chinese locomotives would be too large for British clearances.
John,
From the web link I saw a few days ago, it is basically a copy of an exisiting ‘Peppercorn’ class steam engine. There is no ‘new’ technology here, just a lot of dedicated work to reproduce the engine.
That said; if some group wanted to build a NYC J-3 ‘Hudson’(as there are no preseved originals), it would be well recieved in the railfan community. Of course, who is going to fund it would be another subject!
Jim Bernier
The other half of the question - If you did build a new steam locomotive (hopefully not to a design that was obsolete fifty years ago) what would you do with it.
If the object is to build something for static display, I don’t doubt that a reasonable representation of a NYC J-3 could be built of wood, tin and fiberglas for about the price of an eighteen wheeler. If I had that kind of money I’d invest it in something more useful - like an eighteen wheeler.
Chuck
Tornado will be used on preserved railways but will also be used out on the mainline on specials. Could a locomotive not do similar work in the US? As for getting access to the mainline the commercial railway is a busy place and space comes at a premium if at all. There are safety, reliability and practical considerations but they are all overcome on a regular basis which allows steam to be a fairly common feature on our railway network.
As for funding I beleive that Tornado was mainly funded by subscription. If there is a will there is a way [:)]
No. And by that, Yes it could. But the mainline roads used to do Steam Specials. CSX, NS (both from Southern and from N&W as I understand it) and they dropped them for various reasons I don;t know. There was even serious research done by Chessie into revamping 614 as a vaible freight engine too. That made it as far as the door though. The British Railways aren’t the same as ours are. History and ingenuity are far beyond what we have, (Chunnel. Need I say more?) as well as the distances between cities.One of the issues is water. Water Towers are extinct. And when you have a steam ebngine with no water, you have a disaster weaiting to happen. Even if the engine is oil burning, you still need the water. And dare I say it, the average British citizen shows more toward the train. it was after all their invention. To the American, it’s a tool, moreso than to the british chaps.
yes water is a really big issue. No rail system has the facilities for watering, or servicing in general, steam these days. It is something that really needs thought through to work around. However I don’t think even in America that it is practical considerations which prevent steam from getting out on the mainline. I still think that given a willingness you could have steam running on class 1’s (UP and CP do it for customer specials). However the real reason is probably more to do with legal issues and politics. For that reason I don’t see steam or passenger specials actually happening and I wouldn’t go ahead and build new steam without being sure that there was a real likelyhood of it being used. Until the environment for the existing steam, and passenger in general, becomes favourable I can well see why no one is building new steam in America. But, be possitive, things can change. In 1969 British Rail had a total ban on steam that no one could change and look at us now.
The other one is maintenence. Steamers are on 15yer total stripping. The rrs probabl;y don;t want en engine that has to be down for months regularly.
sound familiar? If yyou model Tranisition, this topic should.
It’s really easy to work around. You water from a hydrant, or a fire appliance/pumper truck. It’s so commonplace throughout the world these days that it scarcely rates a mention among modern day steam crews. Mind you, your statement that “No rail system has the facilities for watering” is wrong, too.
Cheers,
Mark.
No, you just water the loco from a hydrant, a fire truck, or an auxilliary tender/water tank. I’ll guess that you have never seen a modern day steam loco being serviced?
Mark.
??? Really? What do you mean, they’re “on 15yer total stripping”?
Mark.
Yeah, but it’s been several years. And I’ve seen the Daylight’s Auxiallary. But I don’t think the Fire Department would want to regularly, daily, be hauling water for a single steam loco. Even the Aux. Runs dry.
15 year: Technically caleld the boiler tube refit. But I’ve heard it called a total teardown by two seperate sources. Government says every 15 years to pull the steamer apart and replece anything thqat could be fatigued and or go boom. Such as has to be done to NKP 587
Keep in mind the Tornado was a major undertaking, which started around 1990 IIRC. Construction went at a real snail’s pace, sometimes because of problems with the engine and sometimes with a shortage of funds.
Remember too that the UK is much more steam oriented than we are. A much higher percentage of steam engines were preserved there, partly because steam lasted a decade or so later. Plus steam is used more frequently there, even some regular trains sometimes have steam used on them like in the summer months. So they have the infrastructure to support steam that the US doesn’t.
Would be nice to see a new NYC Hudson, or Milwaukee Hiawatha 4-4-2 though.
Stix, if you can’t hold your breath for that Hudson or 4-4-2 to appear, and are willing to settle for a ride behind an “original” ex- Soo Line 0-6-0 steam switcher #353, you are welcome to come on over to the WESTERN MINNESOTA STEAM THRESHER’S REUNION, at Rollag, MN on Labor Day weekend…Only 15 minutes off I94… Don’t come for just one day; It takes at least three days to even “glance” at all the working displays…
See ya there, BDT ,yes bring a camera,won’t need a picnic basket; lots of good, old fashioned hospitality as far as food stands, and lots of spots for campers…
Does sound good, but “15 minutes off I94” would only be after driving for 3-4 hours on I94…I’m southeast of the Twin Cities, between St.Paul and Prescott WI. I do have a ticket for the Milwaukee 261 “circle tour” next month - down the Milwaukee Road (Minnesota) side of the Mississippi, cross over near LaCrosse to the Wisconsin side and come up the Burlington side back to the cities.
You could never do that in the desert where towns are hundred of miles apart and no water is available close to the railroad. North American railroads decided long ago that the manpower required to maintain a steam engine is not economically viable, and having to go back now and rebuild all of the support infrastructure would be cost prohibitive in spite of any advances in steam locomotive technology. That’s probably one of the main considerations that quashed Ross Rowland’s American Coal Enterprises project.
How do they water UP’s excursion steamers today? They operate in the “desert”…if such an obstacle really presents itself as such for a steamer today.
Hello,
may I add for you interest the following link to a German factory that rebuilds and builds completly new parts for steam-engines, including boilers. As far as I know, they have the capacatiy to virtually built every steam engine from the scratch. English site is available!
For Selector:
I have the “3985 and Heavy Freight” video, where the engine is filled up by a hydrand on service stops in Nebraska.
This particular engine and Nr.-844 also have up to 2 aux. water-tanks, rebuilt by ex-turbine-tenders.
Can’t tell you the available range with this setup, but I assume it is good enough for crossing the “dessert”
Kind Regards
Lars
But it still seems impractical to drag around a canteen car or four for anything but the buisness/special excoursions.
Lars: I believe Selector was being retorical, and a specially built plant in Germany doesn’t help fpor anywhere but Germany. You know how many stamps it takes to mail a steam locomotive?
(That’s a joke, but you get the idea)
While I know steam probably isn’t coming back and there are numerous reasons for it, here’s a “what if” scenario to discuss.
Why would a new steam engine have to be reciprocating? In other words why couldn’t we just replace the diesel engine with a small steam engine to spin a generator? Of course there are other things to consider of course but this way you wouldn’t need to design and build new engines rather than refit current older diesels.