It took me 2 hours to do 3 feet,
How slow is that? What should I aspire to?
Depends on how you do it. I think the method usually advocated - apply ballast dry, then drop or spray diluted glue on it to keep it in place - is ridiculous. It’s the slow, hard and highly unsatisfactory way to ballast track. I’d never do it that way again! Instead, I preform my track, sit the track in place and mark out where it will go on the roadbed, remove the track, paint the area neatly with adhesive, plonk the track back down, get the final alignment correct, then apply ballast.
Once the glue is dry, the excess can be removed by vacuuming in the case of a fixed layout, or upending a module over a sheet of newspaper. Simple. I can ballast 3 feet in about 2 minutes. Another advantage of this method is the much greater control you have over where the glue goes. I’ve never had problems with turnouts being glued shut or otherwise affected since I started ballasting in this manner.
All the best,
Mark.
Yes, it really does take that long if you do it right.
Laying down a glue trail, laying the track, then ballasting over the wet glue will leave a below-the-ties ballast line. Not satisfactory in my book.
I myself, glue down my track, and while the glue is wet, pour a healthy amount of ballast in between the rails and let the glue under the track dry. Then I use a paint brush and toothpick to remove all of the stray pieces of ballast from the tops of the ties. When all looks good, I spray the ballast with 50/50 waster/alcohol and use an eyedropper to place a good amount of scenic cement over the ballast.
When that dries, I do the same thing to the sides of the track to form the profile.
I heard that one master railroader paints the ballast profile with glue and ballasts the sides before laying down the track. That way, he has more control over the profile, and that ballast holds the new ballast up against the side of the track when it comes time to do that.
I think it took me 3 hours to do 15-18 inches (keep in mind I’m also VERY meticulous, not a single grain is misplaced)
Not in my experience. I dilute the adhesive somewhat, and it tends to wick up through the ballast as it is applied. I’ve never had a problem with below-the-ties ballast.
Mate, so am I, but I haven’t got the time or the inclination to faff around with eyedroppers, dilute rubbing alcohol and all that other ballasting paraphernalia. I reckon my method is quicker, more effective, and looks as good if not better than the orthodox method.
Cheers,
Mark.
To each his own…
2 hours for 3 feet seems a little slow but to do it right is somewhat tedious. The key is learning to get the right amount of ballast down. For mainline track, I want the ballast level with the tops of the tie but not over the top of them. That is tricky to do. I like to use fine ballast between the rails and medium on the outside (Woodland Scenics brand).
I apply it down the middle first with a spoon and then spread it first with my finger and then use a bru***o clean it off the sides of the rails. I then do the two sides being careful when I spread it not to let it jump over the rail to the inside that I have already smoothed. When it looks right, I soak it with a spray of water/alcohol. Instead of applying the diluted glue with an eyedropper, I use an old white glue bottle and apply it directly from that. It goes much faster than with the eyedropper. I have found that when the ballast is soaked, it tends to swell up over the ties and cling to the sides of the rails so you might want to apply a little less to the inside of the rail than what looks correct. Invevitably, I will have to go down the rail with a small screwdriver and clean out a few bits that have gotten out of place.
I have heard that you can make a good and inexpensive ballast by mixing, ground coffee, fine sand and a small amount of charcoal! Then apply as stated in the posts above. Has anyone else heard of this?
I too, find that painting on the 50/50 glue to the side profiles is a good way to control the shoulder. This also helps save the ballast that otherwise needs to be “piled” to get the desired contour. A small foam brush seems to have the best control for doing this.
Bob K.
I always put down the ballast dry with a piece of card stock folded in half containing the ballast, I then take a 1" brush and lightly bru***he ballast in place so that the ballast is between the ties, once that is done, i spray the ballast with water from a misting bottle that contains a couple of drops of soap to break the surface tention of the water … I then take a large syringe (without the neddle) and fill it with dilute white glue and drizzle it over the ballast, let it dry and then vacuum up the ballast that doesn’t stick…and yes, it is a slow tedious process…chuck
One trick I used, but not mentioned, is that I tapped the rail with the side of my spoon to settle the ballast into place between the rails. Then I swept the excess with a brush.
Chip, I think 2 hours for three feet is way to slow. Like Mark, I want to do other things that are not so tedious, and I have gravitated to the method that Chuck describes. Place the track, use a pie tin or cardboard to sprinkle ballast along the outer ties and let the profile be dictated by the height of the roadbed. Inside the tracks, sprinkle enough that the tapping method, or light brushing, will leave the inner profile right.
Thereafter, I use a spritz bottle. It is like using a firehose to put out a candle, 'cuz you get stuff spread around in a wider swath, but that can’t hurt your scenery. It WILL cover your rails, though, so you must go behind and use a dampe cloth to wipe the railheads. The trick is to keep your curled fingers and the rag from dragging in the newly laid ballast…once you disturb it, it stays messed. So, you wrap the cloth around your index finger, bunch the rest in your palm, and point the finger down onto the rails with a raised elbow. This keeps the other parts from making contact.
You may be interested to know that it took me about one hour to do 20’ of track.
I think that is very interesting.
I just started my ballast and just messing around with it I did about 5 feet in a few minutes (under 30 minutes for sure) Basically I ran a bead of elmers glue (undiluted) along the edges of the track bed and used a spoon to put some ballast down. The glue will really help hold the ballast on the angled track bed. Then put a very small amount between the rails and use a small detail bru***o work it between the ties. Spray the whole thing gently with wet water and then glue it with diluted elmers (i use 30% glue 70% water)
I took a few pics and wrote a little about it here: http://tukaram.net/ballast.htm
I don’t think that 2 hrs for 3 ft is out of line when you are just starting out. I have probably done 30 or 40 feet so far and was not much faster when I started out. I think I can probably go twice as fast now as when I was just starting. I have found that tapping the rails to level the ballast is a great technique for getting things to settle down and to minimize the amount of ballast left on the ties. One area I need to concentrate on not hurrying is in applying the alcohol I use for a wetting agent and the adhesive (I use matte medium thinned with about 6 parts of water). If I get too quick in this stage I end up washing the ballast around. I use an eyedropper to apply both potions.
I do like the matte medium as a bonding agent. There is no shine and the final bond seems flexible.
Thanks for the link. It is very helpful to me. I saved and will use that to help me when I get to that step!!
Experience counts. The first foot of track is the worst. After that, you will be more comfortable, less paranoid, and your ballasting will go more quickly. At the same time, your results will be better. You will be more confident with the thickness of your glue, and the consistency of your wet-water. 20 feet in an hour is pretty impressive to me right now, but let me get some more main-line under my belt and I’ll see what I can do.
I pour the ballast between the rails with a spoon, then brush it into place with a 1" brush. Then, lightly tap on the rails with the handle of the brush. This helps get those stubborn pieces of ballast from around the rail web and off the ties. Once it’s in place, I spray with some wet water (water with soap added). To apply the dilute glue, I used an old French’s mustard bottle. I can do 3 feet in about 20-30 minutes.
Have I told you guys how much I HATE doing ballast? Your working at about my pace Chip. I get real anal about ballest work. If you don’t do it right, it can ruin your whole layout. I think it’s worth spending the time and effort on. I’m going to have about 400’ to do when I get all my track laid. (I am NOT looking forward to it!)
The short answer is that ballast can be applied quickly but to do it well takes time. There are a few short cuts that can make the job go a little quicker, but to get just the right amount of ballast down, you have to be meticulous and that is going to take time.
Invite your Railroad Buddies over for a Ballast Party!!!