My HO scale DC 8’x12’ layout is ready to change over to DCC. I have replaced all of the old track with code 100 flex track, all turnouts have been replaced with atlas snap switches, All rolling stock was replaced with athearn cars, and the locos are all athearn DCC ready. I have 3 main lines broken into 37 different power zones on the 3 main lines, the freight yard and the round house. I know nothing about DCC control systems. I am looking for advice on what brand of system to use and how to convert to DCC. Is it possible to run DC trains on the DCC system during the conversion, or do I have to convert all of the engines before putting them on the new DCC system. I am thinking that I want to add sound and control turnouts and other ancillary equipment from the controller. I would also want to have at least 2 controllers so my grandson and I both can run trains. Remember I know NOTHING about DCC. I have been working in industrial controls for 51 years, so the wiring of the old DC system was not a problem. I do not want to make mistakes in the type of systems I will be purchasing, that I will regret during and after the conversion. So I am comming here fore advice.
Your questions and situation is relatively common to the Forum and has been addressed many times before. I suggest you use the “search” feature to review some of the threads which will surely help you get a feel for the topic.
I’ve been playing with trains since the mid 50s, and converted to DCC only three years ago. It was the best decision I made, but there was a lot of research and questions done before I spent a dime. Looking back, my initial impressions of “what to buy” were good, as I still stick with them. My research indicated Digitrax or NCE as my first choices (I went with Digitrax). Lenz was a bit behind - mainly because I felt there was more “stuff” readily available for the first two companies (I believe Lenz is European based).
There are other companies, and I won’t knock anyone, but going with Digitrax or NCE is the “sure thing”.
If you are sure your layout will stay the same size and/or not get overly complicated, then a basic system is all you will need. But if you feel you could expand in the future, I would suggest getting a larger system - a 5 amp would be good.
All that being said, the question of “what to get” is like asking guys back in the late 50s about which car was best…
Initial response was “37 Power Zones!!!” but then it occurred to me that perhaps this is your DC block control segmentation?
The first thing I would recommend, especially since you have gone to the trouble to replace track and switches, is to make sure that you have wired this layout in a suitable way. www.wiringfordcc.com is an excellent resource.
Unless you want to get into signalling and associated block detection, I would be tempted to run a power bus under the layout and run feeders from the bus to each of your sections. You want to be sure that the integrity of the wiring and electrical connections are good. Getting this taken care of is vital, regardless of the DCC system you choose, unless you explore one of the new battery powered wireless systems where track wiring is not relevant.
You mention 3 specific needs.
The first the implied desire to move your locos gradually from DC to DCC. You can accomplish this in 2 ways. One is to simply have a switch that lets you toggle the layout between your DC and chosen DCC system. You would then run the layout all DCC or all DC at any given time. Most DCC decoders are dual mode, so will run, with performance limitations, on the DC layout. Some DCC systems, Digitrax for example, allow you to run a single DC loco at a time on the DCC layout and have control of it via the throttle using address 00. I used this feature early on a lot, but quickly converted my fleet. I use it less frequently now, but I still test locos that are DC before conversion this way and run some older locos on occasion that I don’t plan to convert.
Second you mention turnout control. Well most DCC system allow you to control static DCC decoders that can drive various switch machines. There are numerous ways of controlling switches from Tortoise motors, to servos. Be aware that this can get costly when
As stated, this question has been posed numerous times and (not to be rude) a search on the subject will reveal many helpful threads (including those questions you haven’t thought of yet) instead of reverberating everything. Most people don’t know where the search feature is and I wish MR would put it closer to the top of the page…
Anyway, switching your layout to DCC is a simple feat of plugging in the wires from your layout to the command station. As stated, Digitrax and NCE are the most recommended. I use Digitrax and have no experience with NCE.
Yes, you can run DC locos on DCC, but it is not recommended. Some older motors may not take the DCC signal very well and cause permanent damage. If you run a DC motor on a DCC system, you can’t leave them sit on the track very long and you can only run one DC loco at a time.
Converting to DCC will allow you to have multiple controllers as you wish, they could be wired or wireless. The conversion to DCC could allow you to eliminate some or all of your power districts.
Unless you have reversing loops, just plug your new DCC command station in where your DC power pack was connected, turn on all the blocks, and you’re in business.
DO NOT EVER HAVE BOTH A DCC COMMAND STATION AND A DC POWER PACK CONNECTED AT THE SAME TIME.
Whether or not you can run ONE DC loco with DCC depends on which DCC brand you choose. They use zero stretching to accomplish it. Some systems can do it and some cannot. I have Digitrax, which can. I read many posts from people warning about damage to DC engines, but I ran some for a couple of years during the conversion. They ran fine though with an annoying buzz at slow speeds or when stopped. Never leave a DC loco parked on powered track with a DCC system. I did not in any way damage any piece of equipment.
You WILL eventually want the ability to program CVs. It seems incredibly complicated to the new user, but someday you will see it is actually fairly simple. Make sure you choose a system that can do that when the time comes.
Which brand? Everyone will recommend the one they own. That is, after all, why they chose it. Most brands have the manual in PDF format available for download from their website. I downloaded them and read them. I chose Digitrax. You may choose something else.
You can either read it online or download it onto your computer as a .pdf file. It should answer a number of questions you might have…and some you haven’t even thought of yet. [:)]
If you are wanting to convert your roster over to DCC a little at a time but still run DC in the process, Digitrax, Lenz, and Bachmann will be your only choices as far as DCC systems. Both NCE and MRC do not have that capacity.
Of those three, I would pick Digitrax. They put out a very good product and make “accessorizing” (adding signals, wireless, etc.) easy. OTOH, I have the NCE Power Cab and Smart Booster (SB3a) set up and have been very happy with that.
CCG, the best thing right now is to take your time and read up on DCC first. This will enable you to determine which DCC system will meet both your current and future needs and goals. And if you can get some “hands-on” experience with someone in your area who has a DCC system that you’re interested in, that will go a long way, too.
I have built about 8 larger HO layouts in my life. (larger than simple 4X8). I am an electronics engineer and have no issues with wiring either. In going DCC you will have a new and wonderfully easy go of it.
Unless you have a massive pike with large yards, 5 main lines, etc. you can forget all that block control garbage, at least block control as you and I have come to know it. You can, of course keep all your blocks if you wish, but even a large layout running several trains at once might only need three power blocks or divisions. You’ll find that you will just leave all your old block switches in the “on” position for the most part, if you even decide to keep them at all.
Once you go DCC you can lose a lot of that old track block wire clutter under your old DC table.
DCC needs only a single 12 or 14 gauge solid copper pair run under the bulk of your track work everywhere. Smaller, very short, (~3-inch long), 20 gauge feeders need to be conected from this long “buss wire” to your track about every 24"-36" of track run. (I chose 30") DCC pretty much does all the rest for you. Any electrical track loops that you handled with a toggle switch can remain so, but there are cool DCC electronic add-on auto-detectors that can solve a lot of this toggling for you.
Switches should not create any issues provided you isolate the two frog feed-out rails and leave all current switch machine point relay throws as they are.
As Pheobe Vet said but using different words. In this situation I would disconnect all the DC cabs. Connect the DCC controller where one of the DC cabs was. Flip all the block selectors to that cab number and give it a go. I will give 92% chance of success. Is your block system common wire or dual wire?
[quote user=“ccg”]
Is it possible to run DC trains on the DCC system during the conversion, or do I have to convert all of the engines before putting them on the new DCC system.
[quote]
Yes, but given the chance for problems I do not recommend it. To run DC connect one of the DC controllers back up to one of the other DC cab positiions, flip all the selectors to that cab and run DC. I ran like this for several years, BUT BIG warning. NEVER try to run both systems simultaniously. All it would take is one train running from a DC block into a DCC block or vice versa to potentially fry both. Controllers, decoders, the works. So I highly do not recommend this. Better to just keep all the selectors set on one block and hook either the DCC unit or the DC controller to that cab. That way there is no chance of crossing power and causing problems. It isn’t that hard to undo two wires and move them to another controller box anyway.
What is these days considered normal sound is not a function of the DCC system but a function of the decoder in the locomotive.
Download the Digitrax or NCE manuals. The digitrax manual answered alot of questions and when I bought my Digitrax system I was not so overwhelmed. But once you go DCC it is not too hard get the hang of it.
