New to hobby... layout suggestions, please!

Model Railroader Layouts and layout building
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Hello all,

I had a train set when I was a child and have always loved model railroads. Long story short, while visiting my parents last week we visited a hobby shop, and I picked up a couple Model Railroader books in addition to what I had from back in the day. Then…realized that I have all my rolling stock and engines sitting in my closet still in perfect condition (even a UP DD40X!)

So, now that I’ve “grown up” (yeah, right…), I now have the money and space to build something.

I’ve spent hours and hours researching and will be spending more, but it’s time for some feedback from people that are experienced in this hobby.

A couple factors for consideration/inspiration:

  1. My favorite memories of railroads are from driving out west when I was younger. Think desert/mountains type setting…especially Arizona and Utah… and in a modern setting.
  2. I don’t want something ridiculously complicated, but I also want to move beyond the standard 4x8. In my prelim planning, the space I’m working with in the basement can support up to a 4x12, or what seems to be the optimum will be an L shape up to 10 or even 12 feet in one direction, and 8 on the other extension.
  3. Future moving must be considered.

I found the Rancocas Harbor Belt on Atlas after getting frustrated trying to engineer my own layout, which is nearly exactly what I was trying to come up with. Also in consideration is the Granite Gorge and Northern, but that is a rapidly distancing second.

For the RHB, I searched and found a particularly industrious and talented poster on here named “pitstop” who is (was? hopefully complete by now) building one nearly exactly how I envisioned. If I do go with a canned plan, I will certainly be customizing it. Additionally, I w

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Welcome back to the greatest hobby on earth!

Suggesting a layout is a quite difficult task, if we don´t know, what you are really looking for. There is something in the back of your head, which we cannot see, unless you let us know.

Byron Henderson (cuyama) has compiled a list of questions and issues, which you should address and answer for yourself. This will help you to find out, what you really want and why, thus forming a basis for further help.

You can find the questions here

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[#welcome] to the site and back to Model Rail Roading.

As Mad dog stated, do some reading to find out what kind of railroad you want to model. I will give you a few tips I learned the hard way.

You did not stated what scale you are modeling. I have based my ideas on you having HO scale,not N scale.

1 Don’t make the whole track 4 foot wide if 1 side is against a wall. It is all most impossible to do good scenery and lay the rail well when you lay on your stomach. Plus, if there is a derailment, it will be in the hardest spot to reach. Most people like to keep there bench 24" to 30" wide.

2 At the ends of the bench, try to make those sections 5 foot wide. Engines and cars will look better on bigger curves. Plus it puts less strain on the engines and the rolling stock. 48 inch wide bench will support a 22" turn where a 5 foot wide bench handle a 28" turn. Now, that is only leaving 2" on either side of the bench for a safety cushion. Might want to added a safety rail till you get good at laying track.

3 Instead of a L shape, looking at making it a slight V shape, so you have room at the end’s for the 5 bloop’s. (5 foot section)

4 Run two main lines, it gets boring watch only 1 train.

5 Use Flex Track. At first it is a little difficult to work with. But it is cheaper that sectional track, and the track that has the roadbed built in. Plus if you need a 20" 18" or what ever sizes turn you need, if you have flex track you can make it.

6 You are talking about a good sizes track. Make sure you have plenty of power feeder wires that go around the bench. Rather you use DC or DCC for power, then engines will run better. My self, I have a feeder wire ever 9 feet. Many will add a feeder for ever section of track.

Few things to think about or should I say daydream about. Do a lot of reading and ask questions.

You will need around $60.00 in specialty tools for MR

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Hey welcome to the forum brother. You are in the same position my wife and I were in a few weeks ago. I got ahold of an older Bachman Golden Spike Trestle set at my dad’s auction and it sent me back into memory bliss. Then I came here and found a huge amount of help and ideas. The guys here are great and have been very helpful. As far as layouts go, my wife and I are in a similar position. We are going with a “2-sheet” layout for now that will be detachable as we know we are moving in a few months, but refuse to wait to start our layout.

Good luck and keep us posted on how you do.

Shea

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I had a look at that plan on Atlas’ web page.

From my point of view it is a pretty bad plan for the following reasons:

  • It is a basically a loop layout on a table, mainly intended for “standing on a mountaintop” and watching a train loop around and around below you. Fun to build, most likely fairly boring to run after a short while - not much you can do on this layout.

  • It would be very hard to create an illusion of a train (or trains) arriving from somewhere else into the area where you are, and departing from the area where you are towards somewhere else. No provisions for what is called “staging” - hidden tracks that represents “that way”.

  • Reach is pretty bad. You can comfortably reach about 20-24" in from the edge without knocking over scenery or trains. You can reach about 30-32" if there isn’t too much in between, or if you can stand on a chair or something like that. Reaching across 3+ feet is not fun. neither when making a layout nor when running trains on a layout.

  • For a table that is 8 x 8 feet, you would need a floor space that is 12 x 12 feet, even for pretty minimal 2 foot aisles all around the layout. This layout would use up a whole bedroom or a good chunk of a basement, without giving you a chance to let that layout co-exist with anything else (like storage above or below the layout, a workbench or whatever).

  • It would be hard to make sectional, and it would demand another space of exactly the same size and shape (or bigger) to put up again in another room in another home.

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HI!

Welcome to the Forum, and back to the Hobby! I’ve been playing with trains since the '50s, and am currently building a new HO layout.

May I say that everyone’s taste in layouts is different as we all have personal likes and dislikes, and of course space, money, and time constraints. If I knew you and your situation well, I would be able to come up with suggestions, but then you would be building “my” layout and not yours.

As others suggested, I would first pick up a number of Kalmbach’s more basic MR books. If money is a consideration, EBAY always has a ton of them out on auction. And the older versions are just fine, for the basics of layout design/construction are not a whole lot different today as they were yesterday.

The big change over the last 10 years is the growth of DCC operation (as opposed to DC). I recently changed to DCC, and am glad I did - but that doesn’t mean you should do that. So again, reading up on the subject is strongly suggested.

Like a lot of folks on this forum, I’ve been in the hobby for years and built a number of layouts. While the urge to start “cutting wood” and laying tracks is strong, I urge you to:

  • build your knowledge base first, then design your layout (there are a lot of layout books out there that you can copy or adjust to fit your requirements)

  • determine the type layout you want, scale, time frame, and railroad to model. In example, you may choose the Santa Fe, circa 1950, in HO, and the southwest. Or, you may choose the D&RGS in the 1930s, O gauge, and in the Colorado mountains, etc., etc., etc.

  • design the layout in scale format. Do not “cheat” on curve radii or turnout constraints. If you optomistic o

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I, too, would advise against a strictly canned layout. It was designed by someone else, and can therefore never be exactly what you want or need.

They can, however, serve as a great source of inspiration. Pull an idea from one layout, a scenic element from another, and industrial area from a third, and make it your own.

Ultimately, though, only you can decide what suits your needs and taste. For myself, while I enjoy switching and car pick-ups or set outs, I also want to be able to have trains go in a circle. A little clever scenery work (many different options here) can disguise the fact that your trains are going in a circle.

For the impending moves, you have a couple of options. The first is to consider your first layout an experiment, and expect to rip it up and start over when you move. Sounds drastic, but I ended up starting over on my layout a few years ago, because I just couldn’t overcome many of the design limitations of my original attempt. Secondly, you can build a true modular layout, with each section able to be detached from the others and moved separately. 4x4 is probably about as big as you’d ever want to go on one of these. Finally, you can just build the layout, then saw it into pieces for the move and reasemble it at your destination, repairing the places you had to cut up.

On the reach issue, pay attention to what the previous posters have said. If you have some extra money, though, this item is very useful, although pricey.

Welcome to the hobby, and good luck! Don’t be afraid to ask questions. Just remember, the more specific your questions, the better the answers will be. And that

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Welcome back to the hobby. [#welcome]

For starters I’d set up an oval, oil the engines and give them a run to see how things are so you know where you stand. Make sure the track and joiners as well as the loco wheels are good and clean before starting.

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Welcome back! To give you an idea of what is possible in contrast to the canned Atlas plans, check the Salt Lake Route in MRR (either online or in the early 2010 issues). It is N-gauge but will give you an idea of one possible approach to your desert theme. Of course, there are many others in the same 2 resources.

Dante

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To get an impression of a more modern style of layout than the Atlas track plans, have a look at some of the layout photos on this Austrian model railroader Franz Reichl’s travelogue from a summer of layout visits in the US in 2001:

http://www.8ung.at/golden_spike/us_2001.htm

Note that a trend if you want a layout for operations (ie to simulate real train movements) is to often go for relatively long and narrow benchwork along the walls and along peninsulas.

Some western prototype examples:

Len Applebaum’s “New Mexico Western”:

Randy Meyer’s “Canyon and Rocky Mountain Railroad”:

Mike Peter’s “Wyoming Rail Link”:

Eric Broman’s ever changing “Utah Belt Railroad” (2001 edition):

Jim Budde’s “Kansas, Santa Fe and Pacific”:

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Welcome to the forums. Glad the old “bug” got to you again.

If you think you are going to be moving the layout, anytime, build with that in mind and it should be no problem. There are several ways to do this, go to the search function to the right and search for “modular layouts”, “portable layouts” and similar terms. Go to a train show and talk to the folks that have a layout setup, it is a modular and are made to move easily. There may even be a book on building them, not sure.

I would suggest using 2" foam insulation board (blue or pink) for your base and giving each section a frame which supports and surrounds it to protect it during moves. You can buy it in 2’x8’ sheets at most building supply stores. 8’ is a little long to handle moving a layout around, through doors, etc, especially after it has been scenicked. I would suggest making it a 6’ piece and using the 2’ to carve up and make your terrain forms.

I would recommend looking into shelf layouts. They offer more operational choices and better use of most spaces.

Good luck,

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Wow! Thanks for all the great replies and making me feel right at home. You guys are awesome. So many things to consider… [%-)]

The room is in an unfinished portion of the basement, although the basement is very well insulated. It never gets very cold down there in the winter nor hot in the summer. Also there are no moisture or humidity problems. The space I have to work with is 11’ down a wall with windows, and then it is 13 feet deep. In one corner is the A/C unit and water heater. The 11’ is a self imposed restriction as the room continues on down actually more than additional 15 feet, but the 11 foot mark is where the utility doors are and on the other side of the room is all my yard equipment.

I would prefer HO scale- I have a nice variety of engines as well as about 30 or so cars. I like the size of them and the way it looks. Also, with the way the room is, something going around the walls is not an option… hence refining what I consider “optimum” into an L or modified L layout. The 8 foot and 8 foot outer dimensions of the L will permit enough walkaround space to access the entire layout. Obviously, it doesnt have to be a perfect L, but that is what looks like will fit best in the room while still being able to access the layout. I do like the modified V as well as the setup on the “Chippewa Central” from the MRR "basic model layouts book. As far as N scale layouts- I LOVE the Silver City Central from the same book, and I also like the Mineral Range Route from the Atlas N scale Code 80 tracks. If I could do something like the Silver City in a workable HO layout, I’d jump on that tomorrow.

As far as operations- I don’t particularly mind the “loop” concept, as I’m not looking to perfectly model real world ops. I work in a very mission oriented field, and this is somet

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Hmm - trying to visualize your room. Is this how it looks:

What is wrong with the drawing above? Reverse anything? Any other doors or windows you need to take into account?

What’s on or along the 13 foot walls?

Smile,
Stein, curious

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Thanks much for the quick reply!

The A/C and water heater actually are in the 0’ 0’ corner and go along the 13 foot wall for around 4ish feet. Beyond that, it is bare concrete until the meeting the outside wall with the windows. The wall opposite the windows has the entry way and is just open studs.

-Denny

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Mmm - are you saying that the entire lower wall in the drawing is open to the rest of the house (so there in principle e.g. would be no problem blocking off direct walking access between the layout area and the yard tools area along the dividing line between the two areas, e.g by a table along the dividing line, with access to one end of the table from the yard storage area?

What’s beyond the studs?

Are the windows along the left end of the top wall the only windows in the entire area? Ie - do you need light from those windows to reach the yard tool area and maybe the area behind the studs?

How big and high are those windows? Would it be possible to put a table or shelves under the windows along that wall?

Water heater and AC - 4 feet up along left wall from (0,0) corner. How far out from the left wall do these stick - 2 feet or so, plus another foot or two of safety zone, or more ?

Any shelves or anything on or along the rest of that left concrete wall?

Btw - forums will go down on Monday and stay down until Tuesday afternoon for an upgrade of software.

Smile,
Stein

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The entire lower wall is just studs and the entry way which is about 5 feet over. On the other side is a smaller studded in bathroom area that is pre plumbed and set up for being finished in the future.

Light would be preferred from the windows- there are two large ones that go from about 2.5 feet off the floor up to around 7 feet up the wall.

I would say that the AC sticks out 3 feet and the heater sticks out around 2.5 feet. No shelves or antyhing… just bare concrete once you get past the pipes associated with the heating and air area.

Thanks!!

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Okay, trying to summarize available room in a drawing:

Do you need access from the entry door on the lower left along the lower wall to the yard equipment area to the right?

Do you need access to the windows to open them or wash them or any such thing?

Will it be possible to use 2 or 3 feet of floor space to the right of the dividing line as aisle while operating trains on a table along the dividing line?

Ie - is the requirement for the border 11 foot into the room that no benchwork may cross the line (or at lest not cross that line within e.g. 5 feet of the utility doors)?

Or is it that you need the space right up to the edge of that line for storage from the yard storage side, so you might even want to have a little space between that line and the layout?

Would it e.g. be an option to put a light wall (perhaps with a couple of small windows near the top) down along the dividing line between yard storage area and layout area?

The reason why I am asking all these questions is to try to understand which space limitations are absolute (givens), and which are druthers (“I’d rather not”).

Smile,
Stein

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Wow! You are good!

I do require access from the entry door…around 3 feet of clearance is required, as there is no actual “door.”

Space to the right of the dividing line is 100% up for grabs for walking space. The dividing line is simply the limit for any structures!

As far as putting up a wall, that is definitely not an option.

I’m quite intrigued as to what is running through your head-- thanks again for taking this time for a complete stranger!

-Denny

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No problem, Denny. I enjoy track planning.

Don’t have any track plan suggestions for you yet, but I figured that even if I don’t come up with a plan right away, exploring the available space and your wishes for the layout will be helpful anyways.

Let’s move over to what you want to model. I know you want modern trains, you want the western (or maybe even southwestern) look - ie dry and/or mountainous.

You want running, maybe with some switching, but running through mountains is the main thing, right?

Do you visualize being at the end of a railroad line (where the trains turn), or somewhere in the middle of a railroad line (where trains pass through)?

Do you visualize walking along with and following a single train as it enters an area (from somewhere down the line), snakes through the landscape, and leaves the area (for somewhere up the line) ?

Or do you visualize standing at one spot and watching several trains arrive come from somewhere else (perhaps coming out of a tunnel or around a curve or something), passing by your location one after the other (or at the same time, in opposite directions, on a double track section), before they head off somewhere else?

I’ll have some more questions for you later (after the forums come up again on Tuesday afternoon American time - ie the night between Tuesday and Wednesday my time) - hope you won’t get too tired of all these questions :slight_smile:

Smile,
Stein

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Here is a scene that well illustrates what is running through my head, although during the “mainline” representation portion of the track with a double track.

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