Hi everyone, I’ve been reading up on all this model railroading stuff for a while now and have been buying some of the essential tools needed and I’m getting ready to actually start building a layout. At first I thought I could only do a 2’ x 4’ layout but I actually have enough room for a 3’ x 5’ layout and I’m wondering if this will be adequate (such as the curves) as I will be running SD70MAC’s (which I believe would have been too big for the first size of layout I was going to do) and maybe some other current diesel locomotives and other modern rolling stock. I do have the book Track Planning for Realistic Operations by John Armstrong and I’m halfway through it and I’m slowly taking it all in. Will 3’ x 5’ be big enough to let me run what I want to run?
i think it would , that would give you a max 30" radius. but im the kinda person that would cut the wood in hafe and add some to the ends to make a dog bone lay out i dont know what the size of your space is, so i cant really say what i would do i have a sun room that has a pool table in it and the best way for me was to cut my wood into strips and run it down the wall and loop it back so that it wouldnt take up so much room plus it made my lay out look bigger than it really is and any given part isnt that wide so i can use less scenery and buildings to fill the spaces
You will fine. You MAC will actually negotiate the standard N 9 3/4" minimum. But of course it will look better on bigger curves. The big thing to keep an eye on is the manufactores specs. Passenger cars and longer freight cars generally require an 11" minimum radius curve. Ignore all the nay sayers that will tell you you are using the MAC unprototypically. I plan to get a Kato SD70ACe UP/CNW model and will use it as a road switcher, I have enough static models with my 200 plus Hotwheels collection and dozen or so 1/18th die cast. Happy N’ing from a fellow N’er.
Welcome to the wild and wacky world of N Scale. I’ve been at it for decades, and I think you’ll really enjoy working in the scale.
3’ x 5’ is a pretty compact space, but not impossible. I would advise that you check out N Trak to see if there’s a group near you. This would be a much better venue for letting those big MAC’s stretch their legs.
At home, I would suggest that you see if you can stretch your space out to 3’x 6’8, and consider building what’s commonly referred to as a “Door” layout. You would use a blank door panel (available at your friendly local home center) as the foundation, which makes it very lightweight, and easily portable. It’s also a good size to be able to run a reasonable track plan.
In this smaller format, you might enjoy using smaller equipment, such as 4-axle geeps or switchers, to move your freight. While the MACs are indeed able to run on tight curves, this would not be a very realistic setting for them. Plus on such a small slice of geography, you won’t be able to realistically portray a long intermodal or unit coal train very effectively.
I urge you to look at Dave Vollmer’s door project, to get a good picture of how much can be done in a small space. Also, if you do a Google search of “Carolina Central” and you’ll find a really good basic track plan, plus a lot of variants that have been built by a variety of builders. I also invite you to visit my website, linked below my sig picture, and take a look at the projects section for some tips and techniques I’ve learned over the years.
Good luck, and have fun!
Lee
Thanks for the responses guys, I was hoping for good news. I’ll check out those websites mentioned for sure, can’t get enough info in my opinion as it will only benefit me in the long run. I’m in an apartment which is why I have limited space. If I moved the layout to the living room I’d have more than enough room but I don’t think my roommate would appreciate that. I’ll have to do some measuring in my room again to see what the best option is.
I did a “spaghetti-bowl” style N-scale layout while apartment dwelling that was 3.5’ by 5.5’, which turned out rather nice. I tried to stick to 12" minimum curves and designed in broader curves where possible. It featured two independent loops that could operate instead as one long loop - for the few train shows I showed it, I had two trains orbiting, but for real operation it would be one mine turn from staging, out and back. Yes, it had a single staging track hidden in a long tunnel, too. And a reversing loop, for the out-and-back operation. One big coal mine, able to accept a 15-car turn, and then a small industry, a short interchange track, and a team track at the station.
In other words, I do think that quite a lot can be accomplished in that size (your 3 x 5 would be a little more limiting), in N-scale. And 12" radius is not too bad, though for big diesels like that one might prefer 15" or more.
I belong to an N-Trak club and also highly recommend you look into that as an option; the standard module is 2’ x 4’, but you can go up to 30" x 6’ if you want to, to get more operation in; you could make a module that is a switching puzzle, basically, then at the club shows you can get in some mainline running. Plus, building the module will be a great way to pick up skills, and you can lean on and learn from the other club members.
[1] Dave Vollmer’s PRR/Conrail is an excellent suggestion.
[2] See “Spookshow’s N Scale Website” for a “frank discussion” about a half-dozen N Scale layouts, and experience gleaned from trial & error. Minimum radius issues are very clearly highlighted.
[3] If you are converting an HO Scale layout to N Scale:
HO Scale = 1:87 and N Scale = 1:160.
Conversion Math: 87/160 = 54.3% (or 55%). Take the HO Scale dimensions at 55% and you have the N Scale starting point for further layout adjustments.
In N scale “broad” curves are in the 15-18" radius range, and with a 36" wide layout you can do 15" radius curves quite easily so you should be able to run most anything. If possible stick to broader turnouts like no.6s also.
p.s. be sure to take a look at Kato Unitrack at www.katousa.com.
That’s a pretty interesting website you linked. I’m not converting HO, I actually did consider it at first but I decided on N because of space limitations and I actually do like the size and the thought of eventually being able to run some big trains.
I don’t think so. A table 3 feet wide can accommodate a 180-degree (turnback) curve only if the radius is no more than 16 to 17 inches.
Mark
many people have said what I would have said. Keep in mind Ntrak or some other modular group will enable you to run large locomotives and freight cars. For a smaller home layout I also agree with what has already been suggested: the hollow core interior door. It is light weight enough to move to a closet when not in use. Keep in mind that there is a resurgance of short line railroads in the modern age. These short lines are cast off secondary lines that still have active rail customers that connect to/interchange with mainline railroads. These can be ideal for a hollow core door layout. Many of these new modern day short lines see older locomotives such as the GP35 or GP 40 in use.
apartment liveing i know some thing about that since i have ben a maint man 16yrs most br are apx 11x11 in apts you might add or drop a foot on one wall but other than that there is always an 11’ wall unless your in a 3br or more then it could be any thing. so when you start really think about running it down the 11’ wall and back to make a dog bone also keep in mind that the average person will move out withen a year to two years so make it portable ,cut it into 3 or more segments that can fit through a door way 2 loops 1 straght the less you have to tilt it the better becuase you will move and any loose senery is going to come free and all that hard work you did will look like a chaulk drawing in the rain
the other problem is a large plywood layout takes up alot of room
this is what i did i made two 3’x2’ ends that have the loop in them and one 5’x18" straght segment then i bolted thm together and hung the hole thing on large L brakets about the hight of my head bord
you can chang the loop size but keep in mind most door ways are 36" wide thats 3’ wide
hi Braxton,
You can built anything in every scale in any size, but it all depends on what you want and what you like. Not so long ago a “Brooklyn at 3am” pike was showed on this forum, much smaller then yours and in HO.
Mr tgindy seems to love Dave Vollmer’s layout but you should know it is built for shows, so having two trains doing just their laps is a operating goal.
Different people have different likings. One kind is thinking like this: When I have a big modern main line engine it has to cover miles and miles on a main line pulling a long train with 90 feet cars, on appropriate radii and switches; and if I don’t have that space I will have to adjust my wishes. While others are thinking like: What a beauty, may be a bit big, but it can switch too.
Your layout is 5 feet long, so 800 feet in real life. Once, standing along the tracks, I marked those 800 feet and had a good look at what could be fitted in that piece of the real world. Is this all the length I have???.. I kept saying. From that moment on my wishes became more modest; I started looking at, untill then, rejected industrial branches.
There ain’t no good or bad, it is about taking decisions. As long as you have fun it is OK. Be careful however, push a cut of long autoracks over to small a curve or switch and you will have derailment after derailment. John Armstrong spoke about “reliable operation through standards” allready 50 years ago. You will have to find out which standards you want to maintain.
Paul
The problem with using a big modern diesel is that it might not look right on such a small layout. My N-Scale layout is 14’ by 13’ and I model the era 1939-1958 period so I use both steam and early diesels. My layout is principally based upon the original Sunset Valley by Bruce Chubb which I have modified to fit in my train room. I have also incorporated several ideas taken from other layouts from layout books and various magazines. I also had to ensure that the curves that I would be using in the layout were appropriate for all of my engines and rolling stock.
Based upon my personal experience, I’d recommend taking a look at as many types of N-scale layouts that you can see both online (thru Model Railroader Magazine files of layouts), in the various Model Railroad type magazines, and several books that are available both thru Kalmbach Publishing (and others) such as “101 Track Plans for Model Railroaders” by Linn Wescott (has a lot of smaller layout plans), “Track Planning Ideas from Model Railroader” by Bob Hayden the annuals (Great Model Railroads and Model Railroad Planning), etc. You can even pick up used layout books at Train Shows. You might find something that might work in your area that you can use directly or modify to fit. Sounds like you need to possibly find some kind of shelf layout with a return loop to run the larger engines. Also, by looking through the various layouts, you might find a portion or section that might fit your area. If you aren’t hard over in using the larger engine on your first layout (since you are area constrained), then you might consider a switching layout with a couple of smaller engines. Hope this is helpful.
i am so glad you put that link in your post i have ben looking for the web page about the circut bord i used to light the buildings on my layout so many people ask questions about lights and volts etc. and i could never find that web site to link it to them
I’ve gone over my room again and there’s not enough room for a door layout so I only really have enough room for a 3’ x 5’ in my room at the absolute most if I want a loop in it. And I have been looking at all the layouts I can and r
For my grandson, I built a trainboard that was the size of his bed - this bed was a “four-poster”, it had a short post at each corner - and hung it from the ceiling, so it could be hoisted out of the way, and when using the layout, it rested on the four posts, very secure. You could even build it a little larger and have it extend some distance beyond the support points, the suggested 3’x6’8" door might work very well like this. The holes in the ceiling for the hooks would be easily patched and the (almost certainly white) paint easily touched up when you move out. Search this forum for threads on suspended layouts.
Just an idea to expand your thinking - Gerhard
Hi Braxton,
What do you want to say here?
BTW, If you can make a drawing of the room perhaps can someone can find a different configuration for your empire.
And do not worry to much or delay the built. If looking back and you are finding your engines to big, let them gather dust in a corner, in the mean time you have had all the fun. And who knows? Maybe you have another house in a couple of years and you can built your dreampike.
Paul