Well I have always ben a post war nut, but now its time to upgrade. I have purchased a few TMCC locomotives and cannot wait to activate their abilities…
Question: Can I operate my post war locomotives on the same track as the TMCC locomotives? Or does the powermaster wiring prevent this. Also If I just have the Cab 1 and base w/o the powermaster can I operate the post war whistle?
Thanks,
J. Daddy
J. Daddy,
While you can operate both TMCC and non TMCC/Postwar engines with the cab 1, you cant operate both in the same block of track.
For example, if you had a 10x10 layout with 2 mainlines, you could use 1 track for TMCC and the other for non TMCC, with the powermaster hooked up to it.
The reason you cant operate them at the same time is that the powermaster will give the block of track its connected to no power until you turn the nob on the cab 1, which in that case the powermaster will act as a type of “remote control transfomer” in that it will add power to the track only when you turn the nob. Its like having a ZW transformer with a reciever for the cab 1’s nob to be the levers, not the levers on the ZW.
But with the command base, the track runs at full power, and the TMCC electronics in the engine only allow the amount of power you want the engine to have go to the motors.
So, the answer your question you cant have both TMCC and non-TMCC operating on the same track at the same time.
Grayson
Grayson,
I just wanted to comment on your response above, it is right on, concise, informative, and very accurate in my opinion.
Good Job !
Thank you Don. [:)] I do often find your posts very informative as well.
Youth and speed will beat old age and guile every time. Right, Grayson? Or was it the other way around? [%-)] [swg]
Jack
I hate to disagree with an otherwise well-intentioned and well-written answer, but it is infact possible to operate TMCC and conventional locomotives on the same track at the same time. In fact, the ability to do so was touted in early TMCC advertisements(pg. 62 of the 1995 catalog) and the procedure described on pg. 28 of the TMCC manual.
Although TMCC operates ideally at 18 volts, it’s entirely possible to operate at a lower voltage. In fact, many of us have, for years, operated at 16 volts to lower the heat generated by track-powered light bulbs(especially some of the early generation K-line “smoking” cabooses). Railsounds needs about 10 volts to operate, and any TMCC locomotive will operate very reliably at 12 volts.
With that in mind, here’s a general procedure(slightly modified from the Lionel-supplied one) for operating TMCC and Conventional on the same track which has worked well for me:
Bring the throttle up to 12 volts or so, and quickly cycle the e-unit of the conventional engine to neutral.
Start the command loco moving such that it is just barely moving.
Cycle the conventional loco to forward.
Adjust the speed of the command loco until it matches that of the conventional loco.
From this point, you can make any desired speed changes using the transformer and the CAB-1. Since changing the throttle voltage, however, will alter the speed of both engines(unless the command one has Odyssey), it’s always best to change the conventional engine first then adjust the command engine to match. Just be sure that the throttle doesn’t drop below 12 volts.
Obviously, this takes some practice, and it’s a good idea to have a fairly large loop on which to do it. When practicing, I’d suggest a relatively light load behind the command equipped loco, and weighing down the conventional loco to hold its speed down.
Ben’s correct and the procedure he outlines is pretty much the best way to handle this. The procedure is called “Transitional Command Control”. This is one of the most challenging ways to run the trains. I always keep track of the panic botton on the CAB-1 when I do this as it is easy to screw up.
Ben and Chuck, although I dont doubt that you could operate TMCC and non TMCC together in that fashion, the poster of this thread asked if you could do it with the Cab 1 and using a Powermaster.
The way you describe it does not use the powermaster and, in my opinion, is rather challenging and makes doing tasks such as stopping a train and reversing a train a little more difficult.
The example here is basically 2 opinions on how it should be done, or, more how it can be done and what is the personal preference. I see using 2 mainlines with one having a Powermaster or TPC as being what I would do in the situation. If using the transformer to try to match the speed is what you do, thats fine and will work as well.
Jack, I thinks its the “Youth and speed” that beats the “Old age and guile”. [(-D] [;)]
Grayson,
There’s absolutely no reason why what I described won’t work with a Powermaster(or TPC). In fact, I’ve done it before with a Powermaster.
It’s not really even that difficult, either. Once you’ve gotten things started, you can very rapidly cycle back and forth control between controlling the PM and locomotive by pressing the “ENG” and “TR” buttons on the CAB-1.
Alternatively, you can, of course, use two remotes, although that’s an option I made do without for 5 1/2 years of TMCC operation. The last time I tried this, however, I did use my CAB-1 to control the powermaster and the Legacy remote to control the engine.
I do this all the time with TPC’s. I never run my TMCC loco’s at 18 volts, they are always throttled down either by way of a classic PW transformer to through the TPC. The latter combination allows me very fine control over my conventional engines without affecting my operation of my TMCC engines. You could do this with PowerMasters but they don’t have the features that a TPC does.
Some of the statements made were that it is not possible to control both types of loco’s at the same time on the same block of track. That is incorrect. You can do this. It’s not necessarily easy and possibly not recommended until you’ve mastered the CAB-1, but it can be done. The TMCC command signal blankets the entire layout irregardless of the power source. You can use variable power supplies (TPC, PowerMaster, or new ZW) to provide power to a TMCC loco without problems until you drop the voltage below the operational range of that particular loco.
As a side note, I just dug out my Powermaster, and wired it up to my outer loop.
Using only the CAB-1, I was able to simultaneously run both a K-line TMCC Trainmaster and a Hogwarts Express set on the same(relatively small) loop of my layout. I had to stay on top of it, and constantly manipulate the speed of the Trainmaster, but I ran about 10 minutes with no incidents. The hardest part was getting it started.
I had hardly used my CAB-1 since getting Legacy, but truthfully I found it easier than using the Legacy remote. The reason is that the CAB-1 throttle responds almost instantly and sends out a string of raise/lower speed commands when the throttle is spun rapidly. By contrast, even in low momentum mode with the Legacy remote, there’s a delay for it to ramp up/down.
In any case, as I just proved, it’s certainly possible to do this even with a Powermaster.
WOW! this sounds l
The CAB-1 has a series of buttons near the top of the remote labeled TR ENG RTE ACC SW. This is the “modifyer” that will send commands appropriate to the device you are trying to control. If you select TR, you are controlling either a train/lashup, or a TMCC controlled variable power supply. When it is a variable power supply and you hit the horn/whistle/bell button, the power supply will generate the appropriate DC offset to trigger the horn/whistle/bell. NOTE: this DC offset will be seen by all PW equipement operating under control of that power supply. You can not trigger the horn/whistle/bell for a sepcific pw unit. Also, if you hit the direction button to cycle the e-unit, it will trigger the e-unit on all other PW units under control of that PowerMaster/TPC/Modern ZW. The TMCC equipment will ignore these signals and the only affect may be a stutter when you hit a direction change. All of the TMCC commands are sent as digital encoded signals and the equipment will ignore the DC offsets.
Thank you Chuck,
I cannot wait to puchase and hook her up. I am sure I will have lots of questions once I do.
But this will get me started.
Thanks again,
J. Daddy