http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9205105719432045457
…Enjoyed your video of BNSF decending Cajon…Surprising to me, I saw no brake smoke…If one watches a train decending down into Altoona off the Horseshoe Curve grade one sees brake smoke. At least we did a few years back…Lots of it. Perhaps it was a heavier train…A coal consist. But still, thought we’d witness this train in the video doing some of that too.
What is the rulling down grade at that area…? It sure does look rather steep at least the area in the beginning part of the video.
Speed was similar to what I watched trains coming down around Horseshoe and I’ve ridden down around Horseshoe in passenger trains too at about 35 mph…
Sure looks like those 3 engines have a lot of dynamic brake work to do on that long train in the video. I wondered if it might even have a “pusher” on the rear to help with the braking but not so…
An interesting railfan spot for sure.
Well thank U for ur comments
I have seen lots of trains there & have never seen brake smoke except for the one I saw that derailed on the curve. I have never seen a coal train there but have seen merchandise trains with both mid & end pushers + the ethanol train & again have never seen smoke coming from the brakes.
Actually I would estimate it is a mile to 1 1/2 miles from there to level ground & usually that track is used for EB but I guess due to the lenght & tonage of the train they decided to use the the EB track for that WB train. The train that I saw derail was also coming down that track so I guess they use that for WBs which they think cannot navigate the other track. I think the grade from summit to bottom is something like 1.1%
Yes it is a terrific spot to watch as you are only like 50’ away from the farthest track & the area is quite scenic.
[quote user=“Modelcar”]
…Enjoyed your video of BNSF decending Cajon…Surprising to me, I saw no brake smoke…If one watches a train decending down into Altoona off the Horseshoe Curve grade one sees brake smoke. At least we did a few years back…Lots of it. Perhaps it was a heavier train…A coal consist. But still, thought we’d witness this train in the video doing some of that too.
What is the rulling down grade at that area…? It sure does look rather steep at least the area in the beginning part of the video.
Speed was similar to what I watched trains coming down around Horseshoe and I’ve ridden down around Horseshoe in passenger trains too at about 35 mph…
Sure looks like those 3 engines have a lot of dynamic brake work to do on that long train in the video. I wondered if it might even have a “pusher” on the rear
[tup]
I was very surprised at how much sound was picked up at such a long distance. What type of video recorder were you using ? Did it have an option for miking at long distance ?
Sorry my bro says he does not remember what make/model it was because his wife had borrowed it from her office. He did say it was not any type of specialize camera it was a plain old off the shelf one that you can get anywhere. He “thinks” it was a JVC
The EB grade on Cajon Pass is 2.2 % , the normal WB grade is 3.0%. Both UP and BNSF send heavy WB trains down the 2.2 % grade. The 3rd track will follow the 2.2 % grade. Most trains in the West have higher power to weight ratios making their dynamic brakes more effective. Most upgrades are just too long to slog it out so they power-up the trains more. Conversely in the East the grades tend to be shorter, so Eastern RR just use the locomotives short time ratings and just enough power to climb the grade. Then they have to make more use of the air brakes when descending.
Cajon is a steep monster by interstate. If I recall from the top to the bottom was 5% - 7% with changes in grade steeper or less so and curves. To use retarders below a certain speed means that you dont need brakes all the way down if at all.
I smoked many a brake in the old days without jakes, that is a function of having too much speed versus too little heat disssapation. There is only so much you can dissapate. In fact I recall a few fires that occured requiring the use of the extinguishers and maxibolts.
Cajon is a good serious mountain to run but keep in mind there are bigger and steeper ones around.
Regarding the noise I think the interstate is behind the video shooter. Also it is much quieter out west if such a thing is possible noises travel greater distances due to the rocks and stuff, where back east they get soaked up by the trees and buildings quite a bit.
I have been on Horseshoe and it is no less loud.
My bro says now it was Sony DV camcorder nothing that you could not purchase at any electronics store
The performance of the camera is very similar to my Sony DV; that would be the results I expect in that situation with the camcorder.
Digital Zoom does a fairly good job but fails and degrades over distance. Better to have true optical zoom and get the image onto the plate inside the camera THEN process it.
This video is best viewed 30 minutes after taking Dramamine. [(-D]
Yea. hehe. But I could not break it to the man.
A tripod helps alot. Part of the problem is multipule targets. Two camcorders will assist alot. They are getting cheaper by the year.
Most railroads establish specific operating procedures for operating trains in territories of heavy grades. FRA testing of air braking systems as a result of runaway down the 2.2% 17 Mile Grade in West Virginia found that for a loaded coal train, once the train speed exceeded 12 MPH the air braking system, by itself, was inadequate in controlling the speed of the train. The derailment that occasioned the testing was a coal train that had 3 locomotives with extended range dynamic braking, unknown to the engineer the dynamic braking was effective only on the lead engine and the train therefore had insufficient braking power once the train exceeded 12 MPH on the grade. Braking trains down serious grades is not like stopping you car on the interstate. Virtually anyone can open the throttle and make the train move…an ENGINEER knows how to make the train STOP…SAFELY!
I think for trucks I kept it at about 20 mph or less and below 10 when fully loaded. At those speeds it was possible to not use the service brakes, just the jake. The brakes would be saved until they are needed.
I recall hearing stories from steam days that if an engineer did not whistle a specific signal before a certain point on his grade and indicate his train was under control, a derail manned by a agent will be left open to protect the town below the grade from the runaway. The way I heard the story told, I dont think any engineer on that line ever forgot to whistle for the Derail to be closed.
SV: I believe that was The Big Hill in Canada before the CP opened the spiral tunnels. And SV, did you ever come close to having a runaway in your 18 wheeler?
No. I am a kind of person who does the same task over and over just as I was taught. I had an instructor who understood that I worried about mountain driving (Shifting) He would yell in my ear all day until I could shift in the city without trashing the transmission. Then took us out into the mountains in Western Maryland for a few trips. I remember him saying the words attached to my last name DI style saying things like:
You need to be below X mph. YOU DONT HAVE A JAKE. You WILL DO this… etc etc… after a while the mountains became a technical problem addressed with horspower/torque going up and brake heat coming down versus remaining grade. Because of this I was constantly demanding to the company shop to have my brakes 100% or nearly so and would adjust them constantly. (Manual slack adjusters I think with a 9/16th wrench.)
I was blessed with a trainer in my later years who just plain did not give a damn about the mountians and was just as happy running them as on the flatlands. We would cross Seven Mountains in a few feet of snow with very good tires and careful driving. Usually we were the only ones moving in the area of Milesburg along with other drivers who are doing well.
I myself was to encounter bigger mountains out west and seemed like I was constantly running them. White Sulpher Springs was one place on the Interstate that seemed to have my number