I’m new here and hope this is the right place to post this. If not, appologies.
I’m coming back to model railroading after almost 40 years. I had an uncle who worked for Michigan Central (New York Central). I want to do a prototype layout of the old Niles, Michigan yards of the early 1950’s. I can’t seem to find much NYC information and there don’t seem to be a lot of companies producing NYC rolling stock and engines. Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated.
What scale?
Good place to start is the New York Central System Historical Society. Lots of information, both on prototype (“real trains”) and NYC modelling. Be sure to check under the “Publications” and “Modelling Resources” tabs.
In any scale, you should find New York Central very well represented. In HO, Broadway Limited (BLI) makes models of several NYC steam engines, and many manufacturers make diesel engines, freight cars, and passenger cars lettered for NYC. The NYCSHS has links to quite a few accurate NYC models.
There also have been quite a few books published over the years on the Central.
Hi, and [#welcome]
I model a great deal of the New York Central as it was my “hometown favorite” in the Cleveland, Ohio area.
These days manufacturers pretty much produce “on-demand” and keep very little inventory so if you miss out on a run of a particular model you may have to resort to on-line sites or finding a train show/flea market in your area. Some hobby shops keep stock on-hand but even this is becoming rare.
As Stix points out, there’s still quite a bit available depending on your budget and to what degree of “technical details” you want to get in to. A lot has changed in forty years, especially in the electronics end, but you can still enjoy building and running a railroad using DC control and a few simple block-control switches.
I wonder if you are familiar with the films and photos made by Emery Gulash who covered the Detroit/Dearborn/Ann Arbor area railroads quite extensively along with a great deal of other railroads in his travels throughout the 1950’s through '80’s?
Here’s one DVD set of the New York Central that I recommend:
http://www.greenfrog.com/NYCSpecialSale.shtml
By watching scenes of operations “back-in-the-day” you can get knoweledge and inspiration to funnel into your own modeling work.
Good Luck… Ed
Murray,
As Crandell queried, what scale you are interested in would be a good place to start. With HO there is a ton of stuff available for the NYC for locomotives and rolling stock. With other scales other than O - not so much; hence why I model the NYC in HO.
The New York Central System Historical Society (NYCSHS) is a good resource for modeling information, as well as prototype information and publications, and it continues to improve. I would also encourage you to join so that you can receive the Central Headlight, which is available to all NYCSHS members each quarter.
Here are a few terrific online resources that have information about the NYC:
If you have specific questions about the NYC, this is the right place to post them.
And welcome to the forum, Murray! [#welcome]
Tom
In HO:
For basic NYC boxcars, BLI has a rather nice oldy. Kadee has done some PS-1’s in NYC which were new in 1950. And that’s just a start. There’s likely some good hopper cars out there. Gons, too, maybe. And Red Caboose makes a 40’ flat that IS a NYC car. But you don’t need only NYC cars.
I don’t think there are any plastic (inexpensive) NYC cabeese out there. Best thing is to save your dimes and quarters and buy a couple off of this list:
Note that it is not an in-stock list. But it does show you a lot of ones you can be looking for.
Or. Here’s a shot of a Laserkit NYC caboose. Might be fun to build:
For a yard, you need a switcher. Easiest is diesel. NYC had a buncha EMD “generics” and Alco “generics”. If no one makes one pre-lettered, you are totally in luck, as NYC was BLACK (try painting a GN switcher!). With yellow handrails.
Off the shelf, I see Proto NYC Alco S-1’s available. And there’s a goodly bunch of Kato Alco RS-2’s out there, not ideal, but doable. Besides, it can be a REAL road switcher.
For switching steam (as opposed to Hudsons and Niagaras), I see that MC had 10 USRA 0-8-0’s. Proto made USRA 0-8-0’s. And they are very cool looking switchers. I kind of wish SP&S had had them. Didn’t.
I’d say modeling the NYC is really pretty easy.
Ed
The plastic Trix HO NYC three window wood ready-to-run caboose (similar to the one pictured in the post above) that came out a few years ago should still be able to be found. Best bet is to search the internet for train stores specializing in German / European models, as Trix is the two-rail DC version of Marklin (German manufacturer).
Not sure if it would fit the early fifties, but Bachmann’s new HO bay window caboose looks accurate for NYC, and is offered decorated for the Central.
Right now in HO, I’d say New York Central, Pennsylvania, Santa Fe, Norfolk & Western, and Union Pacific are the best represented for steam engines and (except for N&W) 1st generation diesels. Quite easy to model one of those railroads in the 1950’s transition era.
Wow, did not know about that Trix/Marklin caboose. Being more of a western guy, I paid more attention to their UP one. Interesting.
Paging through a NYC color book, I read that the Central got their first steel bay window cabeese in '48-'49. The Bachmann car looks kind of crude–might work as a placeholder until finding a better one. One thing I noticed (besides the cast on grabs) is that there is a very long tab on the bottom of the side. All of the NYC cabeese I’m looking at have several smaller tabs on the bottom. This might be an easy fix with a file!
Throwing a wrench into a box of wrenches, there’s the question of what cabeese (and locos) were assigned to the MC. Particularly at the yard in question.
Such delicious questions to puzzle out!
Ed
Not sure if NYC assigned cabooses to particular divisions or not at that time…and if so, how you would find it out. For me, I’d wait until the layout is done to fine-tune it for things like that. BTW Rapido up in Canada made a nice 19000 series caboose a while back, may be able to track one of those down. Those were so common they’d look right on any NYC layout.
Locomotives are a different matter, several books and other sources out there with engine assignments, so it’s easier to get the right engines.
Plus, there’s a LOT of NYC locomotives available in HO:
I did find a few websites.
http://railfan.com/archive/rf_archive_0384_TSBY.php
http://www.monon.monon.org/rr/nyc3.html
I couldn’t find information on locomotives in early 50s. Late 50s into PC era. Yes.
Murray,
Depending on your future layout plans, you may certainly wish to dream (at least) about the station in Niles. It was one of the more notable of those in the system and built of stone with a prominent clock tower and other distinctive features. Rather large for the size of town Niles was, but then, it was the focal point of rail service west of Kalamazoo in SW Michigan. Exceptionally well preserved to this day. There should be photos of it available on the 'net, even from way back.
The major line from Detroit to Chicago ran through Niles (and through Jackson where I’m from), double track all the way. Fond memories of the last of the steamers, which, when I was a lad, headed up freight consists only. Can’t recall any doubling but it might have occurred. All were coal burners, at least on that portion of the MC. Still can recall the smell and feel of the cinders raining down at the Wisner Street crossing. All the passenger service was headed by F units. “Posh” train was the Twilight Limited". Great memories last a lifetime, eh?
Welcome, friend.
John
I found this post card on-line:
It’s actually probably too EARLY, which is kind of unusual. I do like that double slip in the foreground. They’re awfully rare out in the wild (as opposed to big station throats).
Look forward to hearing more.
Ed
VERY cool postcard, Ed. [Y] It’s always amazing how much information ONE picture can add to a project…
Tom
New York Central Power in color vol 1&2, Jerry A. Pinkepank, morning sun books (available from publisher or LHS). There was also a set of NYC steam locomotives books (title escapes memory at the moment) but they covered all NYCS steam locomotive types from 1899 to end of steam.
Thoroughbreds and Know Thy Hudsons are also two really good reference books.
Close enough, if it isnt, the moderators can move it to the proper section.
Need to know what scale you are planning on working in.
Pick up a copy of the most recent Walthers reference book. That will give you (somewhat) of an idea of what is available.
Many brick and mortar shops (where they still exist) have a decent amount of new old stock from previous runs.
3 rail O MTH and Lionel have made just about everything except a J2 Hudson (the MTH one is a J1 they painted green and said “close enough”) and a J3 Hudson (without streamlining, the Dreyfus hudson (the one in tstage’s photo) is a J3). For 4.0 accurate there have been many importers of NYC steam.
Brasstrains.com has an archive online of almost all locomotives that have been produced. Some were good, others not so much. Some are still available. Brass not recommended for someone who is starting back into the hobby. N, HO, and O.
Athearn has made NYC GP7 or 9 in HO. AMB makes a laser cut caboose (HO scale).
BLI has made many types of NYC steam over the past 10 years or so.
Bachmann has made a 4-6-2 that is passible for a NYC locomotive, some detailing could improve it. Contrary to their advertisement in their 2017 catalog, this locomotive did not receive a NMRA conformance warrant (Bachmann uses all wires black as color coding, which is understandble because the harness runsbetween loco and tender, and color wires dont look very good).
Bachmann also made a USRA 2-8-2 in NYC. Its not too bad, and detail can be added as desired.
Trix makes what I have been told is an excellent Mikado.
Athearn Genesis m
BMMECNYC,
Maybe you’re thinking of these books?:
Both are terrific reference books on the fleet of the NYC.
Tom
Murray,
The Berrien County Historical Association might be an excellent souce of information: http://www.berrienhistory.org/Visit/Museum . I note that one of the most popular exhibits in their museum concerns Rail Transportation. As Niles was the focal point of rail service in the county, they could be good source for photos and drawings. Assuming that you’re not in the immediate area, I’d bet you’d not be the first to contact them from a distance. Who knows, they might even have a prepared package of items for such inquiries!
John
BMMECNYC,
I do about those books. I was trying to focus on the object on hand by the OP.
I do want all these NYC books but they’ll more than I want to spend. Plus Know Thy Hudsons is sold out.
These:
Steam Locomotives of the New York Central Lines Vol 1 and Vol 2 (William Edson and L. Vale)
vol 1:
https://www.amazon.com/Steam-Locomotives-York-Central-Lines/dp/0965961702
vol 2:
https://www.amazon.com/Steam-Locomotives-Central-Lines-Parts/dp/0965961710
Basically a locomotive roster of the whole system and all subsidiary lines. Photos of a representative sample of locomotives.
If you are looking for numerous photos, you can try http://madisonrails.railfan.net/
and check out the “Big Four Memories”. Books? There are hundreds.