Am I right in thinking that in 1945 all locomotives arriving or departing from Grand Central New York would have been of the diesel or diesel electric ilk? Is it correct that steam trains were still banned in the Mannhatten district?
Since about 1908, all trains in and out of Grand Central Terminal (Grand Central Station in New York is a post office) were either MU cars or pulled by straight electric locomotives. The FL9’s were equipped with third-rail shoes so they could operate into GCT as straight electrics. Diesels never operated into Pennsylvania Station either.
Perhaps somebody else can enlighten us with the particulars on the statutes related to steam operation in the borough of Manhattan.
Dont quate me on this but I am under the impression that the New York Central switched to all electric power at Harmon New York, Steam and disel power were swaped with Electric power taking trains in to Grand Central The New Haven also used a fp7 engine that had a pickup shoe near the lead truck that would pickup power off the thrid rail ,the diesel engine would be shut down and the shoe would do the work into Grand Central This way the New Haven didnt havetp change engines Larry
The Grand Central Terminal as we know it today has always used electric traction to power the trains within due to the tracks being underground with poor ventilation. The only exception to the rule allows diesel powered locomotives to used for M.O.W. service (when the 3rd rail is depowered to allow for track maintanence) or to help push/pull a disabled train.
Under New York Central and subsequently Penn Central, all long distance trains to/from the Hudson Line swapped diesel/steam power at Harmon, NY. New Haven trains between Boston and GCT/Penn Station swapped power in New Haven, CT. New Haven’s FL9s eliminated the need to switch power on trains going to GCT.
Under Amtrak, the only trains to use GCT were trains coming down the Hudson Line until they consolidation all operations at Penn Station. Until then, all locomotive changes, if nescessary, were done at Albany. Most Empire State Service ran with 3rd Rail locomotive between New York and points north. The Lake Shore Limited ran diesels between Chicago and Albany, then picked up a 3rd Rail locomotive at Albany.
The “FP7” was actually classified an FL9. It had two axles in front, and 3 in back. Here’s a photo of one, now working on Maine Eastern. Amtrak sold off theirs when they converted to Genisis locomotives with pickup shoes. All of the surviving ones have had the pickup shoes removed, so they are straight diesels.
I’m particularly interested in knowing what Grand Central Terminal would have sounded like in 1945. Apart from the obvious (passengers chattering, PA announcements etc) would a bystander have been conscious of the sound of trains? Did they have any distinctive horn/bell sounds? Does an electric train make any sound, apart from the screeching of wheels on rails?
Amtrak also ran out of GCT through New Rochelle during their first few months with some of their trains to/from New England. All service to New England was consolidated into Penn Station later in 1971.
You are correct. The engine change location was Harmon, on the Hudson Line. On the Harlem Line, it was North White Plains. In the 1960’s, the commuter trains from Brewster would drop their RS3 and get a T or P motor to take them the rest of the way.
[#oops] tyler you are right about the New haven my mistake Larry
Amtrak NEVER operated New England service out of Grand Central Terminal. (By the way, note that it is Grand Central TERMINAL, not Grand Central Station. The term Grand Central Station refers to either a Post Office or a Subway Station.) In fact, when service to Penn Station was blocked for an emergency of some sort, Amtrak runs were terminated at New Haven and passengers instructed to use Metro North trains to GCT. Two months after merging New Haven into Penn Central, or perhaps a few weeks earlier, Penn Central switched all through trains, any train running beyond New Haven (Montral, Springfield, and Boston, specifically, but not Danbury) to Penn Station, and all through trains then got GG1 power between Nerw Haven and points south. At the same time, there was about a 50% reduction in intercity service, and this meant that most through trains ran through to Washington or Philadelphia, instead of terminating in New York. The only exception to this change was the Turbotrain, which continued running to Grand Central Terminal for about another two months, until the two trains had their third rail shoes replaced to use LIRR power into Penn Station, where they made an across the platform connection with a Washington Metroliner. Penn Central continued to run all commuter service, all service terminating at New Haven or points closer to NY, out of Grand Central. It also closed the lower level of GCT, confining operations to the upper level, and Metro North restored the lower level and increased service.
Engine change points at first were New Rochelle for the New Haven, and High Bridge for the Hudson Division and Wiiiliamsbridge for the Harlem Division for the New Haven, the latter being quckly moved to Mt. Vernon, and the first (NH) to Stamford. For many years engine changes on the New Haven were at both New Haven for most trains and at Danbury for trains running to Pittsfield, MA. During this long time period, engine
Dave, this schedule says differently.
Amtrak did operate most trains north of NY out of GCT until the Empire Connection to Penn Station was built.
A while back there was a show on PBS on this topic. If they reair it, it is worth a look.
When I used to commute into GCT back in the early 1970’s the batteries on most of the FL9 units had seen much better days and were dead as a door nail. Since those batteries were used to crank up the prime movers (diesel engines to you newbies) after the train left the GCT “underground” trackage and could not be used for that purpose since they were (by that time) dead…the FL9’s were kept idling in diesel mode even while “underground” in the terminal, causing a significant degree of “pollution” in the track areas and when the trains returned to day-lighted areas the third rail shoes would be raised and the prime movers notched up to provide full power to move the train.
Also, an FP7 was NEVER an FL9. The FL9 was the only diesel-electric-electric locomotive I have ever heard of sporting an B-A1A truck arrangement.
I wasn’t there in 1945, but when I was there years later you had no clue that there were trains running underneath you - no rumbling of the trains, and I don’t think there would be any bells or horns being used in the terminal area.
Electrics make a little noise but not much beyond a sort of a humming sound I guess you could call it.