Hi Motley, Wow! 36 Posts, back and forth. I am so glad the Texas Zepher made the last Post. Incidentally, the two of you may be within driving distance of each other, in “The Mile High City”. Send him an E-mail! I printed out the last six Posts and laid them out on the table. Texas Zepher’s comments and terrific picture of the actual prototype of the area, shows that your figure 8 loop, Union Station and yard placement, are pretty close to prototype (with a little freelance imagination.) If you take the last layout idea of Tex, and combine it with the two ideas of Lee, the lead track to the yard turnout ladder, with the “wye” branching from the bridge over the river, becomes nearly prototypical, and allows the long lead tracks to the “Yard” to approach from two different directions. Make your stub ended yard in the lower left, with as long tracks as possible. Note how the mainline on my layout loops over the 7 track stub-ended yard, (with inter connected track at 2 inch center to center spacing) This is what Lee’s last yard arrangement might suggest. By incorporating a “wye”, as shown in Lee’s previous layout design, you will be able to reverse the direction of travel, as the prototype does (according to Tex’s description) I happened to get a huge Styrofoam hollow packing case, that might be a terrific solution to covering your “Access Holes” within the figure 8 loops, with removable (or “hinged”) framed mountains. Styrofoam is so light in weight, that one could glue an iron circle to the tops of the mountains, so that an electromagnet on a pole could be used to lift and place the mountain as covers to the “Access Holes”. The mountains would hide the trains, when on the back side of the mountains, and make it appear as if they were coming around the mountain from two different directions, as the “prototype” California Zephyr and train in the picture actually do. The “wye” turnout from on the bridge, might be incorporated into your layout. A river, (with bridges over it), on a layout provi
Thanks Bob!!! Yes that was quite the thread about my situation. I didn’t realize that my figure 8 was near prototypical. See I knew that was a good idea. I know it limits my layout, but in the end it will look awesome, and I will have fun with it.
I love your idea with the mountains covering the access holes, I will definitely do that.
Can you edit my latest revision, with what you were talking about with the wye coming off the bridge? I can’t figure out what you mean. I need visuals!
Thanks, I appreciate your positive feedback.
Like this?
Hi Motley, Look at Texas Zepher’s posted picture of the Denver tracks, near the Union Station. There is a river, with a bridge over it, that has the turnout for the wye on the bridge, and the “lines of puffy clouds”, which Tex adds to my remarks about your figure 8, as being “useless”,and “unrealistic”! Observe Lee’s first drawing of changes in the yard of your layout. The wye turnout, is not on the bridge, but is a great idea, that I hope that you can incorporate into your layout. It requires a couple of ARM "Automatic Reverse Modules, and special wiring, but is a way to have your trains reverse direction, (as they do in the prototype). Bob Hahn Thanks for your quick reply. Call, or e-mail Texas Zepher.
Hi Motley
A little quiz for you, inspired by my youngest son. Which situation is prototypically and which not; A or B? (And why?)
Those loops can be found between the mountains, not in Denver West; so are they prototypically?
What you call prototypically depends on your POV; apparently I have different standards. Main difference between some postings and mine is the given explanation.
BTW why were you telling us you are building your pike with #6 switches while you have drawn it with #2’s? Both are on the same library, just two inches apart. Those #2’s are giving some length in the sidings but will derail your coaches.
May be he meant this: 
Is the tail long enough for a yard beyond the wye?
Have fun and lots of good luck
Paul
BTW When on drawing “A” staging tracks are build, you can pretend or play, it is like “B”.
No! Not like that! Look at the drawing of Tex that Paul has shown. The idea is to have all the yard tracks, the Engine house, and the gravel complex tracks veer to the right, and not to the left, where the turnouts become unreachable. You may want to use several “wyes” so that you have the option to turn to the turnout to the left branch. The turnouts to the most used wyes should be placed within reach. Get yourself a “grabber on a pole”, to reach the unreachable derailed cars, on the upper left, (like the ones advertised on TV for wheel chair handicapped people). Bob Hahn
Well I went home for lunch and laid some track down with that wye from the yard to Union Station, and it works perfectly! I like that idea, because now I will be able to pull into the yard at the top, drop the cars right before the wye, come back around and be able to push the cars into the yard tracks.
btw, I am using #6 switches, but the RTS program I am using don’t have those, so it may look a little different than what will actually work with the real tracks.
I took a bunch of pictures with my camera phone, to give you guys a better look at what I have.
&nbs
Motley,
Do you think you will be able to see much of the Corn Ethanol processing plant if you put mountains in front of it, covering the access holes? There will be a lot of time invested in building both the mountains and the ethanol plant from this point forward.
Ya good point. Maybe instead of a mountain on the upper right hole, It could be a corn field? More appropriate for the industry, and I will still get the effect of the loop with a scenic route.
The other access hole in the upper left is too big, so I think I’ll just leave that open, as I plan to operate within that space.
Yes, very close. We are both even on the Northeast side.
At the URL below there is a photo (Not mine) of the top loop of the area. Notice around the curve at the top (inside of the train) there is another row of hopper cars. Those are there to block the wind. A set of models would look really good set to the inside of that center loop on the right on your plan. http://www.coloradorailfan.com/TrainLog/logs.asp?p=010602
That is a pretty nice mine. Walther’s kit isn’t it?
Hmmm, I like it. Is 1/2 of A and 1/2 of B an allowable answer? 
From memory I believe the real track plan is like this with the black being the real track (top toward the east & track to Denver). Red is the hopper car windbreak.
Yep - that’s how it looked from http://www.bing.com/maps too - just search for Clay, CO, zoom in a little and swap to Aerial | Satelite view. Where the name Arvada is displayed.
Btw -. parked hopper cars as windbreaks - how come? From the satelite photo it seems like there are trees planted along that curve as well ?
Smile,
Stein, curious
Hi Motley, Yes, that mine is made from a Walther’s kit. Thanks for sending the pictures. Wow! 12 new Posts, with terrific photos, etc.,etc.! This is exciting! I wish that you would make a diagram of the room, showing all the walls,stairs, windows, doors, etc. What are your plans for your “windows”? I have pull-down shades with the continuous scene glued or painted on them). It looks like you have Venetian blinds. I did not realize that your yard butts up against a wall across the lower left of the room. By curving your yard to the left, the only way that you can “drop off” cars is to back up, all the way from the top left, and most of the yard turnouts will be out of reach, (unless you duck under to the “pop-up” hole). From what I see, the track coming from the Union station is a mainline. It is not one leg of a wye. That access hole next to the yard is too small. When I get my “Copier” hooked up, I will send you a layout diagram that I think will save you a lot of grief, (with those unreachable turnouts and what length legs constitute a “wye”. Speaking of “legs”, are the 2’x2’ legs of the bench work screwed to the floor ? Are they cross braced ? You might consider making a work table on casters, to slide under you layout. If your freight cars have metal trucks, the legs of the “wye” must be of train length, or you will have a “short circuit”. If you move the gravel pit ,crusher and loader up and angled, it frees area for an enlarged “access hole”, which could be covered with a large industrial complex,(that can be lifted out’, wit lservicing track next to the lift out. The access hole cover in front of your citrus complex, could be a low industry, or a farm., so that it does not hide the structures to the rear. The gravel “pit” might be cut into the plywood, with a shallow drawer screwed to the bottom of the plywood. Note the photo below, of my gravel “complex”… Are the brown squares of cloth, “felt” ?? What is their purpose? You could glue or staple them to the insulation board. W
Hey Bob, thanks again for all the insight and suggestions. I was playing around with the trackage last night, and I just can’t make that wye work with the yard the way your diagram has. If you look in my photos, because of the #6 turnouts, I have to start the yard turnouts higher up towards the the top left of the layout. Also the end of the yard would be, again, out of reach, and the yard tracks would be very short. I just couldn’t fit it in that space any reasonable way.
The way it is now, though, I could pull forward into the yard, drop the cars just before the turnout to union station, and bring the engine around and push the cars into the yard.
I did some changing though, with respect to the other two yard tracks that were on the far side of the small access hole. I removed them, and was able to add a lumber yard, as well as a tail/storage track for the gravel pit.
The “felt” is actually woodland scenics ready grass mat, that I plan to still add the grass for a better affect of ground look.
As far as the backdrop is concerned, I was planning on just buying the walthers 24"x155" backdrops and taping it to the back and side walls, because I cannot paint the walls. I can’t do anything to the venecian blinds, but I might be able to cover them with some facia board that the backdrop would attach to.
Updated layout:
Hi Motley, The more I look at your last revision of your layout plan, the more I think that you should “go for it”, Perhaps a wye would only get you into trouble, with reverse loops and short circuits. I have six reverse loops and three wye, on my “Spaghetti layout”! , as several Trains.com Forums modelers have commented. You will always have the trains going in the same direction, but with the two single crossovers on the left and right above, you will have a choice of various routes. The switcher loco can,as you say, drag consists dropped off next to the Union station, and then push them into any of the five yard tracks. Or the freight loco can back parts of their consist into the yard, the Engine house, or Lumber yard. A double track “run around” from the point where the two tracks merge on the lower center, up tp the cross over on the upper left, might give your high priority “passenger trains” a free route, around the slower freights, on an unobstructed main line. The, taped on, 24" x 15" backdrop sounds like a good idea. Post a diagram of the room that you are using for your layout. 13’x15’ sounds great. I “bit off more than I can chew” by filling a 24’x24’ room with 260 yards of track and 110 turnouts, but I love my completely sceneiced layout, on which I have never completed the wiring , (or run a train, all the way around), my DCC Empire Bob Hahn
I would have to look at the exact diagram but did you realize that a #3 wye turnout is equivalent to a #6 normal turnout. So don’t be afraid to use a wye turnout to help things fit. I was thinking you could cross the wye track over the yard lead back to the main track.
I don’t think that is a huge issue if you are using Kadee couplers and if the yard tracks are straight. There should not need to be a big need to reach them. On one layout I operate on I can’t recall needing to reach the ends of one yard for the decade or so that I’ve operated there.
Hi Motley and Texas Zepher, I was also thinking of making a wye turnout to connect with a turnout added to the main line, to form a “wye”. The only trouble with that is that it requires two AR1 “Auto-Reverse- modules” to change the polarity… Or does it with a wye turnout ??? If Motley did install a wye, the direction of trains could be reversed, but would require that the single cross-overs on the upper right and left sides would have to be either double cross-overs, (or double-slip switches). This gets into a problem of needing “Auto-Reverse-Modules” to prevent short circuits. I suggested that Motley go with his last layout diagram, which still allows the switcher (or the loco) to back themselves. or consists into the five yard tracks and the spurs to the Engine house, and Lumber yard. With the single cross-overs on the upper left and right, there would be not need for AR1s, and no “polarity problem” . The trains have several routes to travel around the layout. What do you think ? With a railroad of this size does Motley need an extra “Booster” with his Digitrax Super Empire Builder ? The fact that you use #6 turnouts as a “ladder”, make the leftmost turnouts,“unreachable”. Texas Zepher suggested that you use a Y turnout. to which you add two #6 to form four tracks. I have a triple turnout feeding three tracks to a gondola ferry. It is only as long as a #6 turnout. If you added two #6 turnouts to the two outside branches of the tripple turnout, you would have five tracks that you desire for your 5 track yard. My 7 track yard is fed by branching Y s and crossover double slip switches, which require much less length than your five #6 ladder. Bob Hahn 
Yes thanks Bob for those points.
I really think I’m good with my last revision. I certainly don’t want to complicate things by getting auto-reverse modules and double-crossovers and such.
Good point about the Digitrax system, it has 5amp booster, do I need the 8amp version?
I am not following that. Any reversing section of track (loop, wye, or turntable) should only require one.
The point of me recommending the crossing was just because of the real one and it seemed it would have fit really well in one of the earlier designs. Definitely no double-slip desired.
Normally I would fire up my own RTS and come up with some real ideas and suggestions. I just don’t have the time to do that right now.
Definitely not. Unless the yard is filled with just locomotives sitting there sucking power, I cannot imagine there being enough need for a booster. I am even skeptical if it even needs power blocks (something like a PM42 or a CVP zone master).
The wind from the entire plains of Wyoming, Nebraska, and Kansas often sweep over the plains hit the mountians and consolidate sweeping north or south. The spring winds here often gust to 90-110 mph. More than enough to blow the trains right off the track on that ledge.