First of all, thanks in advance. Background is I am getting into model trains because my 4 yr. old is a Thomas train nut and just plain loves trains. I thought this would be something we could both do and nejoy together and to be honest, I think it looks fun. I had a train when I was little but nothing like what you guys do on here and hopefully what I will do so I am as green as it gets on this. So here are some questions for you:
I have decided to go HO scale. I have purchased nothing yet. Should I start with a $100 set in a box or start individually? (like a train, box of track, etc.)
What brand should I go with? Bachman, Lfe-Like? or does it matter.
Should I purchase the track that is already built up?
Should I go ahead and start putting on plywood or just on floor for now?
I am confused on hills and valleys and mountains. Does styrofoam go down on the plywood first or do you add it later? Or do you use a clay for hills?
These is just a couple questions I have. If I listed all of them I’d be here forever. I have been on the internet for a week, bought a couple magazines, and just trying to soak up as much as possible. Any info is appreciated.
Scott
First of all: [#welcome] to the forum! Good to have you aboard! [:)]
Secondly, I think it’s great what you are trying to do with your son. Someone posted on the forum here about a week ago how he and his new wife’s son were bonding together over trains.
To answer your questions:
Set or separte - I would encourage you to steer away from trains sets and purchase those items separately. This does NOT have to be a more expensive proposition.
Brands - What are you interested in modeling? You mentioned that your son is a Thomas the train nut. Here’s a list of good manufacturers for steam locomotives:
Athearn “Genesis” (Only 2 steamers)
Bachmann “Spectrum” (Largest selection of steamers)
Broadway Limited (Pricey but VERY nice)
IHC (Okay quality but others are better)
Life-Like Proto 2000 (just recently bought out by Walthers, VERY nice)
Track - Built up track has some advantages. EZ Track (Bachmann) and Unitrak (Kato) make it easy to put together your layout. The track sections fit together very precisely. The downside is that track with attached ballast is limiting to your layout designing. On the other hand, sectiional track (without the ballast) gives you more freedom in designing your layout. Atlas has the largest selection of track. Code 100 (“100” means the rail is 0.100" high) is the heaviest gauge. Code 83 is lighter but looks more prototypical. (Code 83 has rail that is 0.083" high.)
It’s better if you keep you locomotives and track up off the floor. Even if you just used a 4 x 8" section of plywood temporarily up on saw horses, that would work for now until you decide what you want to do as far as your layout is concern. You want to keep your locomotives away from the floor where they will inevitably pick up dust and dirt. (Not a good thing for keeping your locomotives in top operating order.)
Can you get Thomas stuff that isn’t in a set? Anyway, starting with a set is fairly limiting but it does make certian you have everything you need. If you go individually then you don’t have to make any compromises on stuff that is OK but you don’t really want. Another problem with a set is that it locks you into a certain type of track. There is Bachmann EZ-track, Life-Like Power-lock, and others. All of which don’t connect with the other brands. If you just buy raw track of the same size (designated by codes), without attached roadbed, it all works together. With a small child, I would recommend code 100 track.
It matters a whole lot. Bachmann makes a series called “Spectrum” they are OK, but their other “normal” stuff isn’t good at all. As far as I know Life-Like doesn’t make any sets I would wish on an enemy. Athearn makes some good sets and I believe you might even find John Deer painted ones at Walmart. Walthers makes sets - but I know nothing about them. Years ago Atlas made a wonderful set, but the only place I know they are still on the shelf is at Caboose Hobbies in Denver. And unfortunately they don’t have a picture http://www.caboosehobbies.com/catalog/Description.cfm?sku=01501011
Generally I commented on this above. It locks you into one vendor, the different vendor type don’t interconnect. There are fewer different pieces of track with the built up roadbed attached. This limits the track arrangments you can make. But they can make putting together a layout a real “snap” so to speak.
First of all, thanks a bunch for the answers. DCC is another topic I have not quite figured out yet. I saw DCC and DC somewhere. Could you elaborate please? Also, could you explain steam or diesel? What are the differences? I would like sound and all the goodies. I want to do this as well as I can. Thanks
Scott
DCC allows you to control multiple trains on the same track at the same time. It requires additional electronics for each locomotive (about $15 minimum each), plus the controller itself.
Generally speaking all model trains are electric. It is just whether it is a model of an old fashion steam locomotive (Thomas is a steam locomotive, The Wild Wild west train is a steam train), versus a modern locomotive powered by a diesel engine (any train you can see on the tracks today). There might be some maintenance/care differences, but for the most part is your preference of what kind you like.
STEAM
Going with sound will basically add $100 to the price of each locomotive.
I also speak caution here. There are lots of nice models out there, as someone mentioned Proto 2000 and Genesis. I doubt a 4 year old can handle this detailed of a locomotive without breaking off all the nice fine parts. So you might want to consider one set of trains for him and a different one for you. I don’t know how much that would effect the father-son interaction. Can you deal with him playing with your trains and crashing a $40 box car or $300 locomotive? I know when I was that age they couldn’t keep me out of “DAD’s” trains.
Set or Separate: I say separate because just about everyone I know replaces everything – track, transformer, locomotive, cars – in their initial trainset when they begin their layout. But a trainset will allow you to have a train circling the Christmas tree on Christmas morning. Also, I believe that Thomas and The Hogwarts Express are only available as trainsets. My advice is to certainly stay away from the cheaper trainsets.
What brand? Depends on what you are buying. If you want the pre-fab track with plastic roadbed Kato is probably the best, followed by Atlas Tru-Track. Bachmann’s EZ track is of lesser quality than these two but is the brand that is most widely available.
Power Pack – For DC power MRC tends to be the standard. DCC is a far more complicated question.
Locomotives – For diesels the most reliable ones available for less than $45 are Athearn blue box kits and Walthers Trainline. The mid-range – $55 to $100 – give you a wider variety of options for diesels. Atlas tends to be the favorite but Proto 1000 and sometimes Proto 2000 are available in this price range. Same with Athearn RTR.
The cheapest regularly priced RELIABLE steam engines start at around $65. Mantua is the best brand for steam under $100. Mantua went out of business a few years back and sold to Model Power who is re-introducing the old Mantua line. I don’t know if the ones produced by Model Power are as good as the old Mantua since I haven’t bought one or heard from people who have. IHC is not as good as Mantua – both in terms of detail and mechanically – but I have owned one for a few years and am happy with it. The next level for steam begins at around $125 – though you may find some deals – and in this category Bachmann and Lifelike are the main brands. Though Bachmann diesels are not as good as other brands their steam engines that are not part of cheap trainsets are good.
Scott, my now five year old daughter revived my 30 year dormant interest in model railways. I decided to work in N scale, but thats only because our house is quite small! Like the others say, go for separates, Brand is not a huge thing, DONT put the track on the floor whatever you do. You dont want all the dust and muck getitng into the gears. Start simple.
BUT - if your little guy REALLY is a Thomas nut and you want to make yourself out to be the VERY best Dad in creation - why not go and find a tank engine for him? You won’t see one in the American manufacturer ranges, they weren’t really used in the US or Canada, but I just got a really nice little one from the UK, made by: http://www.dapol.co.uk/
The Thomas equipment looks very like standard English loco’s and wagons of the steam era, so look at Dapol for other rolling stock as well, or look at http://bachmann.co.uk/ who have a lot of that era product. In England they don’t tend to use HO, they use OO, same track, but slightly larger scale which compensates for the smaller English equipment. There are plenty of mail order outlets in the UK who will happily send thigns to you, there is also quite a lot on eBay. Go to http://www.ebay.co.uk if you want to look.
Of course that equipment is basically compatible with North American product, but the coupler arrangements are different so you cant mix and match cars too easilly within a single train unless you do some work. Should you progress with the layout, you can a
Steam - needed wood, coal, or oil to heat up water in order to produce the steam that would drive the pistons
Diesel - engine that ran off of diesel fuel to produce needed power
Steam came first. Then, around the early 1930’s, diesel locomotives started coming on the scene. Steam engines were in constant need of maintenance. Diesel was easier to work on, cheaper to run and more efficient. Eventually, by the late 50’s and early 60’s, steam was either replaced or quickly on it’s way out.
As I stated before, DCC (or Digital Command Control) is a way of controlling your locomotive digitally. Simply put, using a transformer, with DC you control the amount of voltage to your track, which controls the speed of your train. Increasing the voltage, increases your speed. With DCC you control the speed, direction, and functions of the each of your locomotives independently.
Your “command station” becomes your transformer - i.e. how you tell your locomotive what you want it to do. Each locomotive is equipped with a “decoder” and each decoder has a specific address on the command station. When you want to communicate with your locoomotive, you call up the locomotive’s specific address on the command station, change speeds, direction, turn on or off lights or whatever - the command station ONLY talks to that particular locomotive whose address is currenly called up on the command station - even if there are other locomotives on the same track.
Scott, the beauty of DCC is that you can run several locomotives on the same track and have them moving independently of one another. With DC, voltage is altered by the transformer and all the locomotives on the same track respond alike.
I hope that makes a little more sense. For a much better explanation of DCC, go to T
Flex track on corkbed sounds good. Is flex track actually flex to make curves and turns or is that the name? I just remember the track when I was little and there was no flex. I would just think it would look more realistic than that plastic EZ track and such. And probably funner to do. Am I close?
The engines…if I went diesel, do they have them with lights, sound, and the works? Would I have to go DCC for this? Is the difference in DC and DCC just the transformer? I know DCC allows more variety and options, but how do you do this…through the train or what?
I’m in the same boat as you…I just bought “Percy” and two “Troublesome Trucks” for “my son”…the boss knows they’re for me, too, though, I think. My local hobby shop (LHS) has HO scale Thomas items for sale, including: Thomas, Annie, Clarabel, Percy, James, Cranky the Crane, and the Troublesome Trucks. Percy’s a little fast compared to a Life Like engine I have, but my (almost) three year old son loves it…and we’ve only had it a couple of days…something about a three year old saying “cool!”
If the Thomas route is the way you want to go, I would suggest getting the Thomas engine and Annie & Clarabel separately from the track, unless the Bachmann track is what you want to wind up using.
If I may, I would suggest an MRC power pack. Take a look at the all the track options your LHS has and go with what works best for you. I would NOT suggest using any brass track, but rather nickel silver.
If you do end up going with the Thomas train set ($68 at my LHS…included Percy, two trucks, 36" circle of Bachmann track, and a wimpy power pack), you can always upgrade both the track and the power pack when you see fit and as the budget allows.
NCE is a Excellent way to enjoy DCC Trains, Accessory Decoders and various other wireless or wired accessories. Burke’s Trains sells a lot of NCE equipment for beginner’s and pro alike. Check out the website:
There’s been a lot of great advice given so far, so I’ll only add two or three cents.
*The different brands and type of track are of either brass, nickel silver, or steel.
Brass corrodes readily, and the oxide does NOT conduct electricity. Stay away from brass.
Steel is not too common, but works OK. Has that “authentic color” Corrosion is still a problem.
Nickel Silver is my choice for sure. The oxide conducts electricity, so performance remains good. If you don’t like the color, you can paint the sides of the rail.
**I was just given a Model Railroader DVD called “Dream, Plan, Build” that has a great deal of information the you would find helpful. I’ve been in the hobby since the 1950’s and I learned some good stuff. It covers track choices, benchwork, stryrofoam, scenery, etc.
***My first layout was not 4 x 8. My dad made the basic table to fit in my bedroom, so it was about 3 ft. 6 inches by 4 ft. 6. It was an oval with a siding and a couple of spur tracks. It allowed me to learn to lay track, do wiring, scenery, and build a town in the middle. It was a good starter, that did not overwhelm me before I got to some state of completion. This is important. Your goal is to model a bit of your world, and run trains, not have a dust-collecting half-done project.
Yes. All locomotives come with lights. For sound though, you would need a locomotive equipped with a sound decoder. With DCC, you can play with speed, direction, lights, sound, startup voltages, momentum (i.e. basically electronic “inertia”, or mimicking the slow startups and slowdowns that a prototypical locomotive experiences in real life.) The realism is quite enhanced with DCC.
Scott, read the DCC For Beginners! link provided above. It will answer a lot of your questions. Lastly, you’re absolutely right, you’re NOT stupid. If you were, you wouldn’t be asking these questions in the first place. [:)]
Tom
[Addition: Scott, Lionel Strang has a good basic book on DCC called DCC Made Easy (Kalmbach Pulishers). The author does a good job of explaining what DCC is without getting real technical. He does have a few more technical side notes for those interested and/or able to comprehend the information.]
Broadway Limited Imports makes steam and diesel locomotives with sound that will work with either DC or DCC. There are less features when operating on DC but you get sound, horn, chuff, etc… They are expensive but well worth buying,
Yes, you can flex it to make any size curve or jog that is needed. It allows many more options. Funner as in more interesting track plans and fewer clicks due to track joints. Funner as in to lay, I would say no. It will definitely be more challenging. It requires more tools, patience, and practice. Flex track laying is an art that takes a while to get the hang of. If you judge just from the number of questions and threads dedicated to flex track laying on this form, one must assume it is not totally easy. But is is not hard either if you have any craftsman skills at all and the correct tools (a hack saw NOT being one of them).
Yes, sound comes in Diesels also. Lights are almost a given these days.
No, you don’t have to go DCC to get sound but it does reduce the number of vendors/models available. There is also a loss of the amount of control you have over some of the sounds. Side note - There are sound systems that work only with DC.
DCC’s control unit requires each locomotive to have its own circuit (generically called a decoder) in it. All the locomotives on the track get all the control signals sent out but they only respond to the number they are programmed to. DCC is only complicated if you try to understand how it works. If it is just taken for face value it is very easy.
I saw in a set where 1 engine was to run and the other was for show. How would I know that if I bought one on ebay or somewhere? What does it say to know it runs and not for show?
Let me go around the Horn with this one. There are several confusing terms being used by the manufactures but there are basically three kinds of locomotives.
The locomotive comes with the DCC installed and ready to go.
Many (most) new locomotives have DCC plugs built in so all one has to do is take the shell off, plug in the decoder and your ready to go. This is usually called DCC ready. The problem here is light bulbs. Many stock light bulbs are a much lower voltage than that provided from the DCC decoder meaning they flash once really brightly and burn out. A resistor must be added.
The third class of locomotive is one where they must be rewired to get the DCC decoder in. Some manufactures will advertise their locomotives are DCC compatible which could simply mean that the motor is not connected directly to the frame. I have yet to find any locomotive I could not make work on DCC. Some are just harder to do than others.
I don’t know what they mean for show, that is not a common term in the model railroad community. But if this is what I am thinking… Model railroad locomotives that have a motor in them and run are generally called “powered” where ones without motors that are only pulled along like all the other cars are called “dummies” or a “dummy”. This could be what they mean.
Was this a used set on ebay or something? If so, it could be the seller was trying to indicate one unit was not working.
A train is DCC capable only if it has a decoder in it. What the decoder does is decode the encoded messages send by the DCC “command station”. See it all makes sense, it is called a decoder because it decodes[:D]. You can get decoders in a wide variety of sizes, shapes, prices and features. A good basic decoder with motor control and 2 light functions will cost you about $20. A basic decoder with sound will cost about $45. A top of the line decoder with sound and lots of lights can run you upwards of $150. I strongly suggest you go with DCC. DC is really becoming a thing of the past. If you want some more information of how decoders work and how they are wired. Email me.
To answer your second question. The engine thats “just for show” is whats called a dummy engine. a powered engine has a motor in it and actually pulls trains while a dummy just gets pulled around by the powered engine, basically just to look good. having a dummy is a cheap way to look like you are running 2 engines on the same train. However, by “consisting” or running together multiple powered engines. Your pulling power is increased with each new engine on the train, just like the real railroads. For example, I have a consist of 5 big diesels that I run. I have had up to 200, thats right 200! cars behind them and they pulled it just fine. These are all $100+ locomotives though. With a train set engine you are lucky if it pulls 10-15 cars.
