So, I’m a big fan of the postwar era trains, not as big on the modern stuff, with DC can motors. I like classic open frame motors, like the ‘Pullmor’ motors used in the classic Lionel diesels. So, I was wondering, newer trains, ones that have can motors, can they be converted to take a vintage motor. I’m specifically considering trains that are remakes of postwar trains, like Berkshires, and F3s and so forth. I would like to know, if it’s at all possible, which trains, and from which manufacturers. I doubt it is th case, as they probably changed the way the gearing works. I know that some trains have can motors in the trucks, obviously these would not be possible to re-motorize, unless maybe you swapped out the trucks for postwar ones.
I could care less about sound systems, a growling motor is my favorite sound system (being old fashioned, eh?) so essentially I just want to know how one might be able to convert a modern loco into a piece of equipment that operates like a pw loco, with vintage motors.
I am aware they still make trains with Pullmors. But not all trains have them, and I was just curious if a motor swap were possible, if snyone has attempted to ‘convert’, and anything of that sort. The Williams frames, at least some of them (Baldwin Shark, ALCo) look like they could lend themselves well to postwar motorized trucks, if one so desired. But the gearing itself, is all a mystery to me! my assumption is all can motored trains being made these days, have too many design changes to make this foolish dream possible, but hey, never kills to ask a question, now does it?
I am under the impression that Lionel does not make any locomotives with Pullmore motors any longer.
Cannot help you with refitting can motored engines with Pullmore motors.
Nothing to forgive.
I thought you’d like to know.
I also prefer pullmore motors.
For me, it’s electromechanical E-units too.
No interest in any of the electronic features.
You read me well! I am the same, all I need is a pullmor as far as the sound system is concerned. I just enjoy the postwar workings so much more… and possibly even better, they are very easy to service. The fancy electronics make things much harder for one to learn how to repair, and there’s more things to go wrong. They may work well, but, they just don’t give you the same experience.
my favorite motors are perhaps the ones for the early F3s, the horizontal motors. Those powerhouses really growl!
If you want a modern engine but pul-mor motor find say a s-2 modern and a beat up post war and swap shells. Yes you will have to do some kit bashing but you can have a pul-mor motor in a modern engine.
I believe all the rest MTH,Williams, etc all had can motors from the begining.
Mr. L, I “kinda-maybe-sorta” did what you’re looking to do.
I’ve got a recent production Lionel U34CH who’s truck gears stripped. Plastic gears mating with metal spurs. I would have thought those who designed the thing would have realized mating gears should be of analogous materials or one’s going to wear out the other sooner or later, but what are you gonna do?
Anyway, instead of ordering a lifetime supply of replacement gears I found a 70’s production U34CH at a darn good price and swapped the shells. Just a little modification to the 70’s frame and it slipped right on.
So there I am, Pullmor motor, old style E-Unit, no more problems. I also installed a Williams diesel sound unit because I wanted a horn. Installing that was a snap too.
I don’t know if you can get away with this on all Lionel products but it worked for me this time.
Regarding gear materials: I thought folks might find this quote interesting:
Bronze Worm Gears When a worm and worm gear run together, the high amount of sliding friction tends to make the surfaces stick together and gall each other. This is especially true if the material of the worm and gear are the same. For this reason a worm should always be made of different material than the worm gear.
In 1994 they were still using Postwar style motors. I am not certain whether any engines had mechanical e-units.
In 1993 mechanical e-units were available in some engines, along with Postwar style motors.
I don’t know about that, it goes counter to all my experiences in the copier repair field in the past thirty years, and trust me, there’s more going on in those boxes than most people can possibly imagine.
Many of the machines have metal gears mating with plastic gears, (I’m including worm gears) and those plastic gears always die at some point, some sooner than others depending on how good the grade of plastic is. Good lubrication will forstall the process, but trust me, it always happens at some point.
The longest lived are always metal to metal and plastic to plastic.
Not trying to start an argument here, just stating what I’ve seen.
The polar axis of the 107-inch telescope at McDonald Observatory has a worm drive, with an absolute shaft encoder on the worm. This required great accuracy in the worm drive to be able to position the telescope in right ascension. Unfortunately, the wrong lubricant was used initially, resulting in galling that damaged the drive beyond repair. The workaround was to smooth out the worm and worm wheel, but the pointing precision was lost. The worm still moves the telescope, but the drive now uses an incremental encoder rolling on the rim of the worm wheel to regulate the tracking speed. It supplies no absolute position information.
Possibly. Myself, I think it’s just a cost-cutting move, i.e. using a cheaper, easier to make plastic part than a more durable metal part.
Look at the classic post-war Lionels, no plastic gears in those things brother, they were built to last! Certainly there was a cost passed on to the consumer, but as the saying goes, “You get what you pay for.”
I wouldn’t hope to replace a can motor with a universal motor because of the mechanical problems, but I have replaced electronic e-units with Lionel mechanical ones in my MTH Big Boy and gas turbine. I also put an American Flyer reversing unit in my ETS switcher that I converted from 2-rail DC to 3-rail AC. Those transplants are quite easy to do.
Look at the classic post-war Lionels, no plastic gears in those things brother, they were built to last! Certainly there was a cost passed on to the consumer, but as the saying goes, “You get what you pay for.”
Lionel tried a nylon idler gear in the horizontal F3 motor drive train. They wrote that it was used in an attempt to make the locos run quieter.
Did it work? Nylon certainly can be a bit tougher than the plastics they had in the post-war era, but not having a post-war F3 I’d be curious to know what the outcome was.
“Lionel attempted to make the F-3s run quieter in 1954 by installing a nylon idler gear. It helped a little but the motor was still somewhat noisy.” Tom McComas & James Tuohy, Lionel A Collector’s Guide & History, Volume II: Postwar, 1976, p. 12
Nylon was invented shortly before the war and used extensively for parachutes during the war. Nylon gears would have been readily available to Lionel in 1954.
I don’t recall having to replace a nylon gear.
Those horizonal motor / truck assemblies are fairly noisy. Don’t know whether the nylon gears actually made a difference.
Maybe someone who has worked on more of them than I can comment.
