Newswire: Amtrak vs. TSA

http://trn.trains.com/Railroad%20News/News%20Wire/2011/03/Amtrak%20police%20chief%20bars%20Transportation%20Security%20Administration%20from%20some%20security%20operations.aspx

TRAINS exclusive: Amtrak police chief bars Transportation Security Administration from some security operationsBy Don Phillips

Published: March 3, 2011

WASHINGTON — In late February, the Transportation Security Administration took over the Amtrak station in Savannah, Ga., and thoroughly searched every person who entered. None of the passengers got into trouble, but the TSA certainly did — big time.

Amtrak Police Chief John O’Connor said he first thought a blog posting about the incident was a joke. When he discovered that the TSA’s VIPR team did at least some of what the blog said, he was livid. He ordered the VIPR teams off Amtrak property, at least until a firm agreement can be drawn up to prevent the TSA from taking actions that the chief said were illegal and clearly contrary to Amtrak policy.

“When I saw it, I didn’t believe it was real,” O’Connor said. When it developed that the posting on an anti-TSA blog was not a joke, “I hit the ceiling.”

Video of the screening is available at: www.liveleak.com.

O’Connor said the TSA VIPR teams have no right to do more than what Amtrak police do occasionally, which has produced few if any protests and which O’Connor said is clearly within the law

Could this be in response of many persons saying how much easier to get on trains than the present airport hassels? Sort of dummy down all transportation modes? Comments?

A terrorist sees the sign on the door and enters the station anyway. “I’ll just tell them I have clothes in my backpack.”

This could get right interesting - who’s got the higher authority / pre-emptive jurisdiction over the Amtrak station and those inside of it ? Amtrak is a quasi-governmental corporation of the US government, but I’m not aware that status makes it a “sovereign” or independent of the federal government even as much as the individual states vis-a-via TSA’s powers, unless somewhere there’s a “Memo of Understanding” or a similar document that does so and spells out who’s in charge . . . What - if anything - does the enabling statute for TSA and any subsequent regulations says about Amtrak ? Unfortunately, I doubt if O’Connor’s opinion or rules, and/ or Amtrak’s policy, will trump or negate any of that. I’m inclined to believe that TSA can do pretty much whatever it wants, even if it’s way beyond what has been done before with Amtrak, and especially even if those screenings/ searches turns out to be un-Constitutionally illegal - of course, then TSA alone gets to be responsible for that, too: repeat after me, “Section 1983” violation of civil rights claim . . . [sigh]

  • Paul North.

'Bout time we take back ontrol of our country.

It sounds an awful lot to me that TSA is on a “fishing” expedition, to whit, “just how far can we go and just how far can we expand to justify our existance?” Just like any other out-of-control bureaucracy. Stand fast AMTRAK and stand fast Chief O’Connor! Don’t let them push you around! It’s YOUR road and YOUR property! You don’t want them there, throw them out!

The American people have already tolerated the abusive TSA much longer than I ever thought they would. Oddly enough, you would probably get more public outrage if you did away with the abusive searches than you do because of them.

Whatever happened to the “land of the free and the home of the brave”?

Sounds very much like the start of a classic ‘Turf War’ in the Bureaucratic sense. The TSA seems to have become the newest’ Federal School Yard Bully’, throwing it’s weight around, til it gets trimmed back by being totally obnoxious to its partner agencies.

An sad observation that I’ve made over the years is the sizable number of Americans who would be willing to live in a police state for the safety it would provide. Many years ago, I met a person who thought that Franco’s Spain was great because the police kept everybody in line.

You know, I’m reminded of the times when I was in the Marine Corps and occasionally someone from outside the command would show up and attempt to throw his weight around, and have to firmly but positively be put in his place by the CO, or one time by me. Sounds like somethings never change. To reiterate, YOU’RE the real cop, Chief O’Connor, don’t let them get away with this on your beat!

It only remains in song lyrics and our memories.

Constitution and Bill of Rights DOA 2011.

R.I.P.

Let’s say I am a terrorist with something really lethal in a backpack. I arrive at the Savannah station, read the TSA notice on the door, and turn around thus putting the execution of my plans off for a day. The TSA has managed to shift the risk from one set of passengers to another, but it really has accomplished nothing to enhance the security of the system.

From satellite photos, it appears there is no physical barrier at Savannah to prevent me from accessing the platform without ever having entered the station. Perhaps I’m smart enough to have previously purchased my ticket and have no need to enter the station.

This is just another example of a bureaucracy mindlessly exercising power just to convince us they are doing something worthwhile.

I will choose freedom over the illusion of safety every time.

“Cowards die many times before their deaths. The valiant never taste of death but once.”

from the play Julius Caesar by William Shakespeare.

[bow][tup][tup] Semper Fi!

( Let Norris and Crandell have a peaceful Sunday! ) [soapbox]

“I will choose freedom over the illusion of safety every time.”

I will have to agree with that. Personal safety is what you make it.

There’s a saying that those who trade liberty for security will have neither. I still say that the more I see of TSA and Homeland Security, the more it reminds me of the KGB. But that’s just the retired signals intellligence analyst in me talking…now I’m just a locomotive engineer.

I have a t-shirt that reads as follows:

Free societies aren’t meant to be safe. They are meant to be free. Quit being a victim and learn to defend yourself.

One bright spot in all of this–at least the Amtrak top cop was outraged.

Like any street thug or playground bully, they (TSA) need to be put in their place once an a while.

One thing I’m wondering about is whether the TSA has done a proper threat analysis of rail passenger safety. I don’t recall any stories of bombs placed aboard trains in the US as compared to two US airliners brought down by on-board bombs in the 1950’s. It is much harder to hijack a train train than an airliner and even more difficult to use it as a weapon as three of the four planes hijacked on 9/11. Based on the history of the last couple of decades, rail passengers have more to fear from barge pilots and steel hauling truckers than terrorists on board the train.

  • Erik

In the 39 years since his death the late J. Edgar Hoover has gotten a lot of critisism, some of it justified, some of it just political. But while he was director of the FBI, especially in its early years, he was very careful not to intrude his organization into local affairs or other areas where it shouldn’t have been without a request for assistance. You see, he knew that many lawmakers were leery of a national police force, and of an intrusion of federal authority into local affairs. Would that some federal officials had some of his common sense and probity! You listening, TSA?