I posted this response on pervious DCC thread: It seems as if DCC is where the PC was back in the late 80s (early 90s) still running DOS. Then comes along the Apple MAC and everything about he personal computer changed (for the better - BTW, I own a business which is all PC based). I would like to see a Apple computer of the DCC world.
If you were going to have input into the “next generation” DCC, what would you like to see?
Being able to select a scale speed.
I read your post in the other DCS thread and thought I would give you my thoughts here. Basically DCC is just a communications protocol and how well the different manufacturers use that protocol varies greatly. This is simultaneously DCC’s greatest strength and weakness, and will have more to do with the future of the protocol than any other factor.
My thoughts? If the manufacturers wait for approval from the NMRA, things will be very stagnant as that orginization moves way to slow in the new age of electronics. Many DCC equipment manufacturers (Digitrax for one) have already gone ahead with DCC protocol changes/updates without the consent of the NMRA, and for the most I think this “bleeding edge” thinking will drive the rest of the market. Regardless of what happens, the technology will surely continue to evolve and grow which is good for all of us modelers… [:D]
I would love to see something like a plug and play concept for controlling locos. .
What I mean is this; once you put a loco on the track the DCC systems detects the new loco and a pop up window appears on each hand held throttle asking what do you want to do with this new loco 1) Program it, 2) Do nothing, 3) Own it. By “owning” the loco it comes under the control of your hand held. You can consist the loco with other locos you “own”, you could stage the loco for future use, you could run the loco, etc. It seems like this type of DCC would be very software driven.
I would also like to see hand held throttles incorporate more palm/tablet like touch screen technology. In this way, you could be given menu choices that are touch screen activated rather than assigning buttons for certain functions. Again, this goes back to DCC being more software driven.
i would like to see more control over non rail items. i would love to see a propper control system for the faller roadway with propper colision control and auto recharging. perhaps this is not DCC, but its something i would like to see.
i would like to see more menu technology but not touch screens. i find them to be a pain in the neck.
Peter
I personally dislike menus only because of the fact that once I get used to a system/computer/etc. I usually use the short cuts as I usually do not use a lot of the items in the menu any more. And besides it is faster, just push 2 buttons instead of 8 using a menu system. I get enough of the computer menus at work don’t need them at home too!
And Yes I wrote computer programs way back when that is all we had was menus.
As for the big screen with all of the info, once you have been using a system for a while, I don’t even look at the screen any more as I know what the system will do when I pu***he buttons. My group is onto heavy switching OPs and we don’t end up playing with the sound systems and trying out all of the neat stuff that the mfg have put into each sound system.
Most of the time we just run the non-sound engines as we prefer the quiet time when switching as it is more relaxing. The sound can get on your nerves! And then there other times we get into an all sound session and make a lot of noise. Yes noise as you get 10 sound engines together and that is all it is, is noise. You can’t tell on engine type from the other.
Sound is fun but in small doses!
Be careful what you wish for!
BOB H – Clarion, PA
i would like to see a decoder that i can afford to install in my 100+ locos!
and yes i use them all. i am not really fussed about sound. i think its a little bit of a gimmick.
Peter
I’d like to see a full train control system where:
In other words, more operating sophistication with less wiring! I think we’re almost there now.
Dave
How about dirt-cheap lighting decoders? I’d like to be able to light each passenger car, caboose and dummy engine individually, with Off-Dim-Bright selections.
The ESU web site seems to be down otherwise I would put a link.
I think that we are starting to see the advent of the next generation. The new ESU system has some very innovative user interface ideas, that suggest that the esoteric nature of CV programming may be coming to an end. Their controller is a bit on the large side. I suspect that this is a dilema that manufacturers are having to wrestle with. How do you present all the information that we want, all the controls that we want, into a simple to use device that is not too cluttered?
The current Digitrax products I think illustrate this dilema. The DT400 throttle does everything and it a great throttle, but is has lots of buttons. The new UT4 has far fewer buttons, but people are always saying “but is does not have x feature!” The larger graphic LCD’s coupled with softkeys may be the answer presenting only the functions needed at any given point in time.
The question is, can the manufacturers do this at a price that is acceptable? The big wide world of DCC is actually populated by remarkably small companies. At least in the USA, most of the throttles that are on the market appear to be built into “off the shelf” plastic moldings or very simple custom moldings. The cost involved in creating custom plastic enclosures for a throttle is astronomical for a relatively low volume, low end user price device. This puts an enormous contraint on the manufacturers. However, DCC is surely growing, and I suspect that the main US makers are doing quite well, so they may have more to invest in a next generation product. It has been quite a while since Digitrax introduced a new command station and throttle combination, so I would not be suprised to see something from them.
Simple answer to a simple question…DCC will be replace with a superior control system.It just a matter of time before a whiz kid finds a better system.
I would like an “IDLE” function which disconnects the drivers from the motor, for shuffling locomotives around the enginge facility with a switcher, also for coasting downhill. And working brakes. Needs more than dcc though.
Also, I would like NOT to have to wire my layout. (currently fussing with the wiring of a double slip - aaarggghhh - ) Some kind of mega-mini power storage device which fits into fuel tanks or tenders and which lasts for a couple of mainline runs, or an hour of switching?
just dreaming…
Of course, everyone wants an easier interface (ie throttle), but it’s so subjective that designing one that pleases all is nigh impossible.
As far as the next gen. of DCC, it’s been in the works for a couple years now. That future was outlined in MR back in 2004, IIRC, in an article called “Third Generation DCC”. Basically, it calls for full, Bi-Directional communication with the decoders, which will allow for more special effects. For example, with Bi-D, you can have locos run out of fuel or water, and need to refilled in certain fueling tracks. You can measure speed and have it display on the throttle. You can have operational cab signals on your throttle, or have automatic speed restrictions. And so on. But how many people are actually going to take advantage of this stuff? Very few. How many people reading this thread actually have a working signal system now? I know I don’t. My club will, someday, but it’s a ways off.
jnichols,
Digitrax has not gone ahead with protocol changes, they are simply taking advantage of what the NMRA has designed into the DCC architecture. For example, their Transponding is actually the NMRA’s “Advanced Ack” protocol. Other companies could do the same thing, but they are instead either inventing (Lenz) or waiting for the NMRA to do it for them (NCE and others). Only MTH has actually gone and made new protocols for HO scale, and that has resulted in the inability for MTH to run DCC locos.
brothaslide,
I don’t see how “automatic” DCC address recongnition is going to be much good, to be perfectly honest. All my DCC locos are on my layout at power up, so what good is the ability to recognize a new address if 99% of the time, all the locos are already on the layout? Or worse, at my club, we could have mulitiple locos placed on the track in approx. the same time a hundred feet apart. How would such a system handle that?
As far as using a “palm pilot” type throttle… Digitrax has offered such a plug in for
In O and G scales (and possibly S), another option is TMCC by Lionel and DCS by MTH.
No matter how good the DCC system is now, or how better one will get, they are all tied to the locomotive by the rails and it’s the biggest drawback to realistic and smooth operation. Look at all of the postings about ‘how to clean your track’.
A rechargeable onboard battery system that lasts at least 4 hours between charging and control of the locomotive radioed directly to the engine would be the biggest leap forward I can think of. It’s already being done in G scale; I’d like it done in HO. Absolutely no wiring to the railroad. Tie that in with improved motors and mechanisms and you could have a loco operating at scale switching speeds at ALL times.
Dale Latham
Paul3,I realize you may find it hard to believe that DCC will be replace by a superior control system and many DCC users believes as you do and that is your right…However,it will come to past just as sure as I am typing this.
When remains the $64,000 question,.
The funny part is and IMHO this system will come from either Digitrax or Lenz since these 2 companies are the current DCC leaders.
In the mean time DC will remain the dominant power source…I believe 2 major manufacturers has already seen this and took the steps needed to insure their sales of sound equipped locomotives to a wider DC market…
Brakie, I think you are spot on. A couple of thoughts. While DC appears to continue to be the dominant power source in terms of total users. I wonder what the breakdown is with layouts under construction? Of course there is no hard data on any of this and I don’t want this to drift into speculation. But it is intriguing none the less. My gut feel is that DCC might be leading as far as new layouts are concerned. To paraphrase you “I believe that I believe 1 major manufacturer has already seen this and took the steps needed to insure their sales of power packs also target the growing DCC market”.
I agree that Digitrax will do something. I find it interesting that it has been quite some time since they introduced anything new on the command station / throttle front. (I know the UT4 came out, but it is not really a jump forward in anyway). With the SEB being very long in the tooth and the Chief getting on a bit as well, I am very curious about what the next generation will bring.
I’d like to see DCC uncoupling. Not only that, but I’d like to point the camera on my PDA at any piece of rolling stock, touch the screen, and poof! Uncoupled!
Piedsou,
I’m not saying that’s impossible (on board power for HO scale), but it’s not gonna happen for quite a while (unless you haul around a “battery car”). From what I understand, they’ve pretty much reached the limit on new battery technology (this was in a Popular Mechanics…or was it Popular Science?). Now a micro turbine or some such thing would be great, but if you thought prices were high before…wow.
The real problem is that model trains still use 100mA to 500mA at 12v for each loco (yeah, I know that half amp motors are the exception, but still…). How long could any battery that could fit in an HO loco last under that kind of semi-constant load? And that’s not counting sound or lighting effects. It would also have to be rechargable and replaceable. Where would such technology fit in, say, an Atlas S-2 or RS-1? Or even the Atlas TM with sound?
I’m sorry, but I don’t see these obstacles being overcome in any kind of timeframe. Far more likely is the Lenz USP system spreading to other makers, where a capacitor takes care of power gaps and the decoder picks up digital information by induction (see Lenz Gold decoders).
Brakie,
What makes you think DCC will ever be replaced? It’s been over 15 years already, and all the major systems are still using the same technology today. Imagine if you were still using the same computer you had in 1991. If I were, I’d be clicking the internet through an AT/XT clone with a Hercules monochrome video card and a PC speaker for sound effects. My printer would be an Epson LQ-950 dot matrix, and I’d be using Word Star and playing Karateka.
Any manufacturer would be have to arrogant, ignorant, or both to try to crack the HO market with a new control system when DCC is already so widespread and popular (um, MTH anyone?). And you think Bernard Lenz, the guy who gave DCC to the NMRA, who prides himself on NMRA compatibility, is going to strike out on his own and try to replace the same system be helpe
darn, and I was just dreaming so happily… But still… you’ll ALWAYS be surprised at technology’s next quantum leap. After all, power storage IS one of the holy grails of moders technologists… and so is miniturisation… So let’s not be completely pessimistic about seeing on-board power arrive during our lifetime? (Anyway, sure enough I’ll have that **** wiring of my layout completed by then LOL)