I know there has been a lot of controversy about so-called “no-horn/no-blow zones”, and I can really understand both sides. Studies show that locomotive engineers suffer enormous emotional stress after fatal grade crossing incidents. On the other hand, I used to live one block from the UP main line through San Antonio, TX in the late '80s. Most traffic passed through at night, and there were grade crossings every other block. Those horn blasts woke me up every night! Now, I am a die-hard railfan, but this was just too much!
Over here in Germany, the air horn need not be sounded for protected grade crossings, hence, there is very little horn-blowing in residential areas.
To make a long story short, grade crossings with automated protection (i.e. crossing gates and flashing lights) are connected to a trackside signal, the aspect of which is a blinking lunar over a constant lunar, read “proceed at speed” (no air horn neccessary). If that signal is not activated, it is to be treated as a restricted permissive, read “proceed at restricted speed, prepared to stop; sound air horn through grade crossing”.
Could a similar system be installed in residential areas in the US? It would mean a lot of happy residents and more peace of mind for the crew!
never… It cant work unless we are doing 10 mph already as there is no time to stop. I dont know about you railfans but engineers and conductors ( when they are awake) want to go home or get off as soon as posible making me go 10 mph will only hold traffic up, cost money to the carrier and make me be there 12 hrs … and then looking for more signals. nope… not going to happen.
The big difference between Germany and the U.S. is that in Germany the citizens know to not drive around crossing gates or try to cross a railroad when the lights are flashing. In the U.S. too many ignoramuses don’t know that and try to beat the train to the crossing. Just a couple of months ago I witnessed a moron on a bicycle ride around the crossing gates in front of an Amtrak passenger train that was going through town at maximim allowed speed just so he wouldn’t have to wait 10 seconds for it to pass. The train barely missed him. And he was an adult native of the town who no doubt knew how fast trains are allowed to travel there.
Cacole’s view on the behavior of people in Germany is over-optimistic. There is rarely a day when not some idiot who ran around closed barriers is hit and often enough killed.
If I recall many of the grade crossings in Germany have double scissor gates with barriers that drop down from each gate, yet the trains still blow their horns, or sound their whistles for the grade crossings.
I am against any no-horn zones at grade crossings zones because motorists have to be warned about approaching trains
Nowadays many of those old-style crossing gates are being replaced by single arm gates that only guard the right side of the road. Strangely enough, though, an engineer is no longer required to sound his horn before a grade crossing with automatic protection. There is an exception to this rule: if there is only a crossbuck with a flashing light and no crossing gate arm, then the engineer must sound his horn. There are “Whistle” signs posted a short distance from any crossing where sounding the horn is required.
The German DB-Netz has done massive grade seperation projects over the past 20 years, and there are NO unprotected crossings on main lines.
In answer to Wabash1’s protests, mainline speed over here is between 60 and 100 mph (high-speed corridors are generally free of grade crossings and run between 125 and 190 mph), and branchlines are run at a maximum speed of about 40 mph. Maintanence over here tends to be really excellent, so signal malfunctions are very rare.
While I must admit, there are fatal grade crossing incidents over here, most people know how fast trains move and respect activated crossing signals.
Nothing can overcome the idiocy of a driver that tries to beat the train except grade separation between the highway and the railroad. The quiet zones are lawsuits waiting to be filed.
…I was very skeptical too as people began to talk about crossings here in Muncie being set up {thru town}, to have no train horns blowing…Now, after watching the web cam available to us here on this forum over in the Netherlands, I’ve almost changed my mind on the subject.
First of all…the busy crossing that is visible via the web cam is “set up” rather well to handle the many {fast}, trains that pass thru there on the double track line. Street traffic lights are coordinated and the lowering cross arms are lit with the typical red blinking lights…and bells are sounded at the crossing gates as a train approaches. As the gates are then in the lowered position, a more muted bell continues to sound.
The crossing itself, seems to have center “guard rail” protection prohibiting {vehicles}, crossing over and around the lowered gates. And…it appears people seem to strictly abide by these arrangements even on bicycles…even in the dead of night. Some passenger trains really “fly” thru there at speed. Most freights are moving rapidly too.
No train horn / whistles are sounded. I have noted almost all their trains are 35 to 45 cars in length and takes just 20 to 30 seconds for them to pass. Their arrangement seems to work.
A municipality has to jump through a lot of hoops before a quiet zone can be established. I believe that one of the requirements is the assumption of liability for grade crossing accidents. Two quiet zones of which I’m aware are on the CSX Blue Island Sub between 119th and 95th Streets (Beverly/Morgan Park) and on the CN Iowa line through Elmhurst. It would be nice to find accident statistics for these quiet zones.
What about four-quadrant gates or other systems of road center barriers that eliminate any possiblity of a driver going around them? Would that not solve the problem?
I agree that gates are not enough to stop someone who drives through them, but I would think that this happens because drivers are not paying attention, and don’t discover them lowered until they are too close to stop short of them. I was thinking of the four-quadrant gates as preventing drivers who see the gates in time to stop, but want to go around them in order to beat the train. It is true that they could crash through the four-quadrant gates in order to beat the train, but I cannot imagine anyone doing that. Perhaps they might if they were impaired or otherwise indifferent to the damage that would be inflicted on their vehicle by the gates.
But people routinely drive around lowered gates for the purpose of beating the train and thereby avoiding what they suspect would be a significant delay. Certainly they see the lowered gates as evidenced by the fact that they weave around them to avoid hitting them. I believe four-quadrant gates would eliminate over 99% of this behavior. And I suspect that this weaving around the gates to beat the train is responsible for the vast majority of crashes at crossings with signals and gates.
I also recall that assumption of liability is a requirement for a quiet zone, but I’m by no means certain.
A dacade or more back, the city of Carlsbad (Calif) was trying to set up a no-horn zone through part of the city. The discussions with the AT&SF (later SDNRR) broke down over the issue of liability - the city did not to incur any liability.
Well, blow them whistles. Never mind that whistle blowing noise.
I DO mind the firehouse blowing noise to call out the crew to recover a stupid or drunk who got mashed into stew trying to beat a train or should not have been driving in the first place.
I say we can do one of three things.
1- Maintain affairs as they are until all the darwins are weeded out of the breeding pool.
2- Adopt this policy and steel the courthouse for additional lawsuiting.
3- Adopt European Protections and save some lives.
My choice:
Totally isolate ALL interactions between railroad and road. Raise the trains up 30 feet or bury them in the ground or do that to the road. I dont care which.
In the meantime, hit that whistle and make it count.
…Where problems exist with the population and businesses…install proper crossing gates with blinking red lights. And as the gates prepare to lower sound a proper toned and volume bell right at the crossing for any pedestirians adjacent to the crossing.
As gates lower and position themselves to block crossing, lower the bell volume but let it toll as the train passes. Install center barrier on the street back the proper distance to stop all driving around the crossing arms…If anyone violates this setup, they would not have been stopped by an engine blowing a warning horn either.
Install a proper metal / chainlink fence back along the outside of RR ROW proper distance to prevent pedestirians from jumping / running across the tracks other than the crossing.
The UP West line and the BNSF Racetrack (sorry, Charlie!) are two more quiet zones (at least through suburban Cook and DuPage Counties). On the UP West, one crossing is excepted because of its past accident record. Both of these have been quiet zones since I’ve been around–well before the recent legislative changes.
Having said all that, there is nothing to prevent an engineer from sounding his horn any time he perceives danger. So if some idiot goes around the gates in front of a train, you can bet the engineer will sound his horn. That’s a rule–it even says “regardless of quiet zone regulations”, or something to that effect. They also have to sound their horns when there is another train in the vicinity of the crossing, or about to clear it, and they must use any horn signals (other than the crossing signal) required by operating rules. Also, there’s a seldom-remarked safety device called a bell, which is rung at all grade crossings. Probably won’t be heard above somebody’s headphones, but it’s there, and the subsequent inquests will show all of this.
And you do you assume will pay for all of this “proper” protection? The railroads are not going too. People will cut or climb the fences, people will still manage to get “trapped” in between gates and get hit. Bottom line, people just need to use common sense. If not, then let natural selection take it’s course.
I understand Fostoria, Ohio, has toyed with the idea of banning train horns. For purely selfish reasons, I hope they don’t. The sounds are so evocative. Lots of them, too, I must admit.