No split frame. What to do.

Model Railroader Electronics and DCC
1

I have 2 brand new never run 20 year old Proto 1000 diesel loco’s. Both F7’s I think.

I have a sneaking suspicion that they don’t have split frames given their age so I’m thinking it’s going to be tough if not impossible to install a DCC decoder in either one of them.

If a person was able to isolate the motor from the frame, would that do the trick?

Just sitting here wondering, that’s all.

Dennis

2

Isolating the motor should do it Dennis. I’m no DCC expert, but I have done a few Athearns, and what you are doing would be no different.

Mike.

3

As I had explained to me three or four years ago, it isn’t the motor so much as the brushes which can’t get power directly from the frame. What many do is to fashion a cradle of plastic for the entire can motor, provided they can thereafter ensure that only the can motor itself is receiving power from the rails. The pickups feed the inputs for the decoder, the decoder lies where it won’t be affected by motor heat if at all possible, and the motor outputs from the decoder go to their appropriate tabs or mounts on the motor.

I believe that some members here even use gobs of silicone goop to isolate the motor and hold it in place. I think one of them might even be our moderator, Jeff W.

4

A photo would help a lot.

How do the motor brushes pickup power if not a split frame?

Make sure there is nothing connected to each motor brush.

Some motor have each brush attached to each motor half.

I have a Walther’s like that. I had to use Kapton tape to isolate each motor half and attach the motor using nylon screws. I used an ohm meter to check the motor. I used some 0.002 thick Phosphor bronze to send power to the motor.

Rich

5

Take a look at the TCS site for you scale and version.

http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/HO_Search/search.html

Store the link in Favorites.

Rich

6

Dennis.

Easy peasy. Look at these links.

LL P1000 http://www.tcsdcc.com/public_html/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Life_Like/Proto_1000_F3A/Proto_1000_F3A.html

Alternative that uses the factory board. http://www.tcsdcc.com/public_html/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Life_Like/Proto_1000_F3A_alternate/Proto_1000_F3A_alternate.html

For a P1K with an 8 pin plug. http://www.tcsdcc.com/public_html/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Life_Like/Proto_1000_F3A_DCC_Ready/Proto_1000_F3A_DCC_Ready.html

Pete

7

Well:

  • Engine (or front truck of diesel) has all left hand wheels insulated. Tender (or rear truck of diesel) has all right hand wheels insulated. Insulated drawbar (steam) or rear kingpin (diesel) and wire connection to one motor brush. The other brush is grounded to the motor frame, which is screwed to the metal locomotive frame with metal screws.
  • Wire connection to both brushes from wipers riding the rails.
  • Wire connections to one brush from wipers that contact the backs of the flanges of insulated wheels. Other brush grounded to frame.

And that’s just for openers. I own about fifty pieces of motive power - not one with a split frame.

So, how to install a decoder? First, isolate both brushes from both running rails. Exact method varies with motor design. Then, feed rail power to the appropriate decoder terminals and connect the brushes to the appropriate motor output terminals. I leave the lights and noises as an exercise for the student.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - analog DC, MZL system)

8

Hey thanks for all the great suggestions and information sites guys! All your input will be very very useful when I get to that project. Got lots of them on the go right now so it will be a while but now I have the bookmarks

Thanks again. I love this site [(-D]

Dennis

9

I suppose you already found out that not having a split frame is a GOOD thing. It makes the installtion much easier.