I have come to wonder why it is that so many try to build their layouts to eliminate or sound deaden the running of trains.
I am only familiar with a club setting. I love the sound of the train running and to hear the metal wheelsets (required) clickety-clack. The layout construction type and also its location may be the greatest factor for most.
Foam layouts (that I’m not familiar with) must amplify the sound and act like a sound board, especially for late night running in a basement.
I would like to hear others views on this subject.
I like noise but only to a point. At shows or at clubs the louder the better but when I’m at home by myself in the basement I like it quiet. I like to sit back, have a beer and listen to music while I’m working on the layout or just “running” trains. The noise level of a foam top layout to me is annoying because its amplifyed, not because of the clickity clack the wheels make, I like to listen to the clickity clack of the wheels or the growl of a loco. Even just running your hand over the foam top is loud, it reminds me a lot of finger nails being dragged across a chalk board.
I would like to hear more from the modelers who use foam, as my layout has 2" foam ontop of 3/4" plywood. I plan to use both cork and rubber railbed as part of my own evaluation of the sound deadening effects of both. I may even try some wood sub-railbed that Joe rants about. I have read many forum replies over that past 2 1/2 years on this subject, and I can draw NO conclusive opinions so far. One guy swears by cork, the next guy says it sucks for sound deadening, then a thrid guy says go rubber, then the next reply says rubber sucks, then Joe says nothing beats wood for sound deadening.
Well, being an engineer, my inquiring mind wants to know, “has anyone actually measured the noise of each with a sound meter (db , decibels )? And of course this test would have to be done on bare plywood base with and without 2” foam, with just wood sub-base, with cork, with rubber, etc. all methods. Then we can compare the db readings of each and end this argument once and for all.
Personally, I like the sound of the clickity clack of the metal wheels, the sound of the locomotives pulling their load, but I do not like excessive “amplified” noise which is a harmonic of the base frequencies.
Has anyone EVER measure the noise with a db meter?
What, me worry? I’ve got sound engines. I’ve got the volume set down to about a half or less, but even there with only one or 2 engines, the sound from the decoders dominates the layout noises. When I turn the sound off and run trains, it seems really, really quiet.
My layout is 2-inch foam on an open wood frame, no plywood. I use WS foam roadbed.
Most of it depends on construction techneque and materials used.
Those materials that isolate the track from a hard roadbed, and prevent the vibration from transfering from the track to the benchwork, will help keep things quiet.
None of my locos have sound, but I love the clickity-clack! I have 2" foam ontop of plywood (in most places) while some of my tracks is on the WS Riser set, and the yard (I know, just the yard!) has cork roadbed! (I know, the yard shouldn’t, while the rest of the layout should, I’ve got it reversed!)
I like the clickety clack also. I don’t like it when I’ve got a load of cars rolling by with short wheelbases going CLACLACLACLACLACLACK! all the time, but if I have a nice sound loco on front (I have two only, third one ships on friday though :D) usually it’s ok. I can’t really pull up to some of my locos capacity; (Consoldiation w/sound, about 20 properly weighted 40’ boxcars, the athearn challenger, MR says 130-140 cars, and soon, my BLI Blueline big boy, about 180 is what they say at the factory.) I only have a 4x8, so I can’t run a 150 car coal drag around.
Contrary to modern construction techniques , I built my layout on 5/8 plywood ( OSB ), with foam road bed. Noise level from that combination is negligible. When I run, the sound I hear is just the trains.
Coming up through the age of brass coffee grinding diesels from Alco models,Train Inc and Hallmark with their KTM drives and who can forget the high pitch whine from Tenshodo’s diesels? Today’s clickety click and the Athearn “growl” should be acceptable.
What gets on my nerves faster is sound equipped locomotives with the sound set at full volume…I like sound but,IMHO it should be set at a comfortable setting.
I use old metal sprung trucks on most of my cars. Not only do they “clickity-clack” but one or two trucks squeak along like the prototype. I like the noise because it sounds like a operating railroad.
Clickety clack is one thing. White noise din cranked up to 10 is another. The metal wheels echoing a SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH noise all around the layout is really bugging me.
I been thinking about filing a flat spot on a wheel in order to imitate a flat wheel but,not sure if it would sound right or interfer with the operation of the truck…
Loathar, I would imagine that a lot of your issues with sound have to do with your train building. Have you tried using any sound deadening materials on the walls or ceiling. I’m a member of a home theater forum that talks a lot about sound isolation. They usually use rigid foam covered in fabric. It may take away some of the reverberations.
I don’t mind noise from the trains as long as it isn’t overbearing. When my train goes from track on foam to ballasted track there is a noticeable difference. It reminds me of driving on the freeway, then going over a bridge, then back to the freeway. I think it’s because I used diluted white glue for ballasting. I’m going to try a different method for the rest of the track. What was the name of the glue you guys use that dries flexible?
My right-of-way, reading from the bottom up, is fairly thin plywood (some reinforced/flattened with steel angle iron,) fan-fold underlayment (foam about 10mm thick,) cardstock template and Atlas flex track, all fastened together with vinyl caulk. In some places the plywood gives way to steel stud material layed rain-gutter fashion.
I have absolutely no noise problem. A couple of my oldest locos have less-than-silent drives, but the layers of dissimilar material seem to muffle even my coffee-grinder 0-4-0T. The newer locos might as well be fitted with the sound equivalent of stealth, and I have no objection to the sound of metal wheels on rail joiners when you have to be within two feet of the source to hear it.
I will admit that a couple of decades of exposure to flight line noise has had some effect on my hearing. I can’t hear a gnat stomp at thirty meters any more.
Interesting comment. I have 2 inch foam on top of lattice gridwork tables.I used WS foam roadbed, attached with white glue, which I later gently pulled up, and redid with clear latex. This quieted things down immensely, but I still have some noise. But I also have a bare basement concrete floor, bare concrete walls, and no overhead tile ceiling, just open rafters.
I just read a thread on the forum where one guy is going to use "sound deadeing material’ like automotive stereo shops use. If I were to attach these to the underside of my layout , I think it would make a big difference.
Another consideration has been to put fiberglass insulation between the wooden grid framework under the layout.But I would magine that carpeting, paneling, overhead ceiling tiles (dropped ceiling) would also make a big difference, as sound would be absorbed rather than reflected as it is now by all of my concrete surroundings.
The one thing I did find out is that latex caulk to attach roadbed to the foam did much to deaden noise, over the use of glue. It may also d
How big is your building? You can get rolls of fiberglass insulation for cheap. Wedge that in between the joists and staple plastic over it. You can get remnants of carpet for dirt cheap too. You could do the whole thing for a few hundred dollars, maybe less. People will spend thousands of dollars on speakers and they’ll sound like garbage. If they had spent a couple hundred on acoustic treatments, the speakers would have sounded ten times better. Just some thoughts for you, or you could buy all new wheels! I’m guessing that no matter what you do, you’ll have sound issues with the metal roof.
K4Kid, You have a giant echo chamber! If you put some sort of area rug on the floor, it will provide a place to absorb echos. It’s not perfect, but it will be a huge start. Part of the reason your hearing your noise is that the room is amplifying the sound. I wouldn’t waste your money on dynamat or the equivalent car audio sound deadener. Spend that money trying to cover some of the hard surfaces in your room.
Good idea, I do have an area rug, I’ll start there. I plan on eventually finishing the room.
The reason I used the building method I did is the layout is 3—6 foot by 8 foot tables, bolted together, and can be easily taken apart, and it is lightweight, and can easily be moved by two people, as I may later on move it upstairs into a renovated garage.
Yet the tables are strong and stable.Overall my layout tables span 6 by 24 feet, and I am modelling in HO scale.
Presently it is all walkaround and I can easily reach anywhere on the layout as height is 45 inches above floor.I do have room to expand to around the back and one sidewall if I so choose, but for now it’s big enough.
TheK4Kid
Grayfox, I have MDF spline subroadbed, but I forewent roadbed in favour of adhering my Code 100 directly to the splines using a thin layer of white latex caulking. Abutted to the sides of the splines is a ground goop over aluminum window screening. My railroad is absolutely silent, even inside my one tunnel where I have nothing but cork between 5/8" G1S ply and the ties. I can very definitely hear the metal wheels click at gaps where I left or cut them. Otherwise, I hear only the various decoder-generated sounds and some occasional final drive noise from the locomotives.
The splines are only noisy when they resonate during rail-top scrubbing by spinning drivers when I have essentially overloaded my engines. You can hear a groan, slight though it is compared to the much noisier decoder sounds. Once the engine regains its footing, the groan stops and all I hear once again are the wheel clicks and steamer sounds.
I don’t need to tell you, I am sure, since you are an engineer, that dual density interfaces is the key to sound attenuation. Something about my layout, as I have described it, makes it very pleasantly quiet. It it considerably more quiet than the first, which had 1" extruded Dow foam adhered to 5/8" ply. The only place on that first layout where everything went dead quiet was over bridges…a wooden scratched trestle and a plastic model bridge.