I have an HO layout on 2" foam and have what I think is excessive noise. I have not had a chance to ballast the track yet and need to hear about what you guys have done about noise.
Is the track attached directly to the foam? That would make a lot of noise.
I feel bad that you had to learn this the hard way. No one will tell you this beforehand.
This is the reason I always use 7/16”OSB subroadbed and Homasote on top and then use Midwest brand HO cork for the mainlines and N scale cork for the passing sidings.
I have foam on my layout also and this is how I know that it is the worst thing to make noise.
Others may not think they have as much noise but how can they compare it with anything. I can and did this to prove it to new modelers that it is not all that it is cracked up to be.
I just love these new methods that are worse than the tried and true methods. These new modelers think that they have the answers and then run into this problem.
The only way to get around this is to glue wood under the foam as this will make the foam more dense and this will help cut down on the noise but it won’t eliminate it! But now that sort of makes for more work! Don’t yha just love it.
Been there and learned!
BOB H – Clarion, PA
Bob is right. Foam with nothing underneath it resonates like anything and amplifies the noise of the trains significantly. All of my layout, except for one small section is foam glued to a plywood base with Midwest cork as the roadbed. One small section is just roadbed and foam. The noise of the loco jumps considerably when it crosses this section.
You may want to try a short section using the rubber matting that is sold in place settings at Wal Mart. It is also used to line cupboards and so on. It looks like a rubberized loose weave. If you cut a 1.75" strip and lay it under your roadbed material, I bet that it will reduce noise considerably. However, gluing your ballast to keep it in place will add to the overall volume.
I had a friend who learned this the hard way also. He has two modular units that have the big turns on them. When we hooked them up and the train ran off my units (These are the ones I used that nasty black AMI roadbed on) onto his the noise was terrific. At first we just thought it was because his units were twice as wide. Then we thought it was because we were over polished tile floor. Then we realized the foam was acting like a drum head and amplifying every tiny noise of the train.
We put up some heavy skirts all around it and that cut down the noise quite a bit. He added an extra brace to stop some of it. And as a final measure some noise dampening foam (the spungy kind) was added to the bottom. I couldn’t talk him into ripping up the track and adding roadbed.
When I first started building my layout it was just kato unitrack on 3/4" plywood board, and boy was that loud. I took all the track off to do the foam terrain (hot glued down) and mountians, plaster cloth and hydrocal over all foam then track. When I started to put it back it was very quiet. Would I need to put cork under the track? It seems pretty quiet now.
Ron,
Out of curiosity, what kind of roadbed did you use?
I installed my foam over 3/8 plywood (with foam compatable construction adhesive). This minimized the “drum” effect. Since it is probably too late for you to add the plywood, you need to change the resonant frequency or stiffness of the foam (or both).
We used to use adhesive sound deading sheets for car audio installations, perhaps you could glue them to the bottom side of the foam between supports? It should help dimini***he vibration but I have not seen it done yet, so experiment first.
Also be aware that if you are using a flexible roadbed, then ballasting with “solid” glueing methods will likely INCREASE the noise. I found that thinned matt medium keeps the ballast bed a little bit maleable and lowers noise transmission somewhat.
good luck.
To all those who responded to my noisy problem “THANKS”!!! I think that before i go any further that I will remove the foam and start over. Again THANKS!!!
Well I’m confused now. I thought the foam was a sound deadner and the plywood or OSB was the sound maker?
On my layout I was going to put 2" foam directly on the benchwork, and then use foam roadbed.
What is the best way so you dont have excessive noise?
.
The foam does a fairly good job of transmitting sound all by itself, with or without something below it. You will want to use a 1/32" layer of latex caulking under your ties, as well as roadbed (foam or cork, it matters little), and just set the track on the raodbed with as little pressure as it takes to keep it in the shape you desire. The caulk will act as a sound-deadening barrier, although not a great one. The three densities, foam, caulk, and roadbed, will do much to keep the thunder under control.
I use the old method of 7/12 OSB and Homasote on a 1 x 3 dimensional frame. I also use Midwest cork under the mainlines to further deaden the sound. I have no problems with excessive noise but when the trains hit the foam areas then it almost drowns out the BLI engine sounds.
I want to hear my sound engines not some foam amplified crap. I paid good money for the sound.
New ways and methods are not always the best ways! While they may be faster there is usually a problem somewhere with them that makes you spend more time to correct it and then what time or money have you saved???
And with the cost of a piece of 2” 4 x 8 foam more expensive or at least as expensive as Homasote you know what I am going to use and it won’t be pink or blue!
BOB H- Clarion, PA
I use 2" foam, but lay my track on Woodland Scenics Trackbed on top of the foam and the trains are silent as ghosts.
Yup. Track (N-scale) attached to cork attached to 2-inch foam with acrylic caulk is relatively quiet. Not bad but still some noise. Substitute WS foam roadbed for the cork and it’s very quiet.
I found some cheap black rubber shelf liner at Menard’s and I’m going to try that next since it’s cheaper than WS.
Now if I could just get a couple of ten year old Katos to quiet down without reworking the drivetrains…
We’re running the tried and true 1/2" plywood sub-roadbed with 1/2" homasote roadbed over L-girders and 1 x 4’s. You can barely hear the trains running, the loudest thing being the Kadee wheelsets clicking over frogs and gaps. The track is all plastic ties, code 100 (Hidden) code 83, 70 and 55, spiked directly into the homasote.
The few layouts we’ve visited that are on foam make the trains sound like someone is rolling ball bearings on a drum. Having never messed with foam except for a scenery base, I don’t know what is the best method for using it. But it seems that to run plywood, foam, then cork is kind of overkill, not to mention a little costly. Wouldn’t the plywood and cork do the same job?
Some of the best points to homasote are the way it holds spikes, you can sand a little to take out a bump or mis-match ( Half-inch plywood and homasote isn’t always half-inch.), and it deadens sound really well. Plus, it is pretty cheap considering a 4’x8’ sheet is between ten and maybe thirteen bucks. You get a lot of roadbed out of that sheet. Cutting it with a knife blade in a jigsaw takes away the dust/mess complaint.
The idea that it tends to swell and contract according to moisture hasn’t seemed to affect our railroad or those of others we know. And isn’t the wood framing going to have the same problem, no matter what you use up top? Of course some people seal all the wood with paint and the homasote with paint or varnish/polyurethane.
We get a little expansion/contraction, but that was easily solved by having some expansion gaps in out hidden code 100 track (The areas we had the most expansion/contraction.) and leaving the mainline block joints open. You can see them get open and close a little, even though the basement is climate controlled.
We think our expansion/contraction is purely a moisture thing, a product of the benchwork and roadbed/sub-roadbed, rather than actual rail movement. We aren’t the sharpest tools in the shed, but our first clue
I have a layout of 2" foam over 1/4" plywood.
I have one short section of track laid directly on the foam using caulk. It’s a logging branch that is mostly elevated and on plywood “jigsaw” roadbed rather than the foam base. Since it wouldn’t be prototypical for this sort of track to have a nice, raised roadbed, I also laid the section that is at ground level (about 10’ of track) directly on the foam.
Good Grief what a noise! Even knowing what’s coming, I still have a moment of panic every time a train hits that section - the sound increases so dramatically that it sounds like something’s derailed. It’s absolutely shocking how much the noise level goes up moving from the track-caulked-to-plywood to the track-caulked-to-foam.
On the mainline I laid cork roadbed on the foam and track on the roadbed, again, caulk for both. Very quiet on those sections.
So I’ll be re-laying the section that was directly on the foam as soon as I get around to it.
YMMV. Regrettably, I don’t have much input on how to reduce the noise other than re-laying the track…
I had to lay one section of track directly on the foam board and it is noisy. I plan to try a bat of fiberglass insulation underneath the foam board and see if that cuts down on the noise. Has anyone tried this yet?
Doc
Can be overkill, depending on what you’re trying to accomplish.
If you don’t put too much weight on it, 2-inch foam doesn’t need plywood or hardboard as a base. The foam I have is self-supporting over at least a 16-inch gap and since my scenery will be relatively flat and also made of foam, I don’t plan on a wooden base. I will most likely have to use some hardboard as a “joiner plate” between foam modules for stability though.
If I were going to cut relatively deep streambeds or such, I’d either laminate the 2-inch to hardboard or a layer of 1-inch foam for “height zero”.
If I were using a plywood base, I’d only use foam to build up elevations, although I saw an article in MR where they used a base of plywood, a layer of foam and then another layer of “cookiecutter” plywood for one of their project layouts.
I like foam because I can carry a 7-ft X 2-ft module with one hand and I want to keep things portable as I will most likely be moving in a couple of years. But David Barrow’s plywood dominos would be portable too. So it seems to come down to personal preference.
But wait until you hear the noise this module is going to make!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
It is a risk.