Hi to all, I need some help from modelers od American prototypes…
I started to model HO L-shaped layout which will feature continuous L-shaped oval, but will also have small logging spur, with switchback arrangement to gain height in limited space with no excessive inclines. In the bottom of logging area I plan to put siding to which logging spur connects.
I have unlettered Bachmann Shay as my logging motive power, and I have Rivarossi 2 truck Heisler on order, to complement Shay. Heisler is lettered “Northern Pacific”.
My goal is not to model some real operation with 99.9% accuracy, but I would like to have fair amount of reality on the layout.
So, my questions are:
Area and era of ops - ? This could be states of Minnesota, or Washington, or Oregon. Am I right? But, what is the decade when big Shay and Heisler was used in logging operations?
I think 30’s or 40’s would be right. What do you think?
What type of steam loco would be the motive power on NP branch line? I mean, if Shay and Heisler pull logs from woods to the bottom, which loco would then be in charge to connect to the main line?
Wikipedia states:
Twenty Northern Pacific steam locomotives have been preserved:
Two 0-4-0 engines (the “Minnetonka” and 8). Five 0-6-0 engines, representing classes L-4 (927), L-5 (924), L-7 (1031) and L-9 (1068 and 1070). One 2-6-2 engine, class T (2435). One 2-8-0 engine, class Y-1 (25). One 2-8-2 engine, class W-3 (1762). One 4-4-0 engine, class C-1 (684). Five 4-6-0 engines, representing classes S-4 (1354, 1356, 1364 & 1382) and S-10 (328). Four 4-6-2 engines, representing class Q-3 (2152, 2153, 2156 & 2164).
Is within the realm of possibillity that rival’s GN 2-6-0 could be runing on the NP track?
Sorry, I just noted your location, so I will edit a bit.
Location will have a big impact on tree species, and era will have a major impact on size (one log filled a rail car at one juncture). The Pacific Northwest (British Columbia, Washington, Oregon, A bit of Northern California only) logging environment was rather unique due to the huge trees. The logging rail roads usually hauled only to the sawmill(s) and or pulp mills, were usually in fact owned by the same company, and then the major railroads hauled the finished lumber or paper to the end users in the rest of the country. Very little transfer over of cars from one road to another that I am aware of. Weyerhaeuser was and is a biggie; Peterbuilt started out building trucks for George Weyerhaeuser.
The log cars used on logging roads were not much like mainline cars. And any boxcars were not for wood transport, and were far more likely to be older, smaller wooden cars than modern steel boxcars.
I doubt you would find a rival line’s locomotive performing any kind of daily work on a major railroad in the days of steam.
The Northern Pacific Railway did in fact own a Heisler. It was a 2-truck version. The NP classed it as V-2, road number 4. It operated out here on the Yacolt branch in Washington State. NP also had at least two Shays as well, but not being home, I can’t give better data on them, other than they, too, operated the Yacolt Branch. This branch ran northeast from the Vancouver, Washington area up into the southern Cascade Mountains. Your era might be earlier than what you stated. Teens and 20s seems to me to be the timeframe of NP’s operations here. The most likely larger steam locomotive you’d likely see in the area would be class Y 2-8-0s, class S-4 ten wheelers and class W to W-3 Mikados. Foreign power would have been very rare. Hope this helps.
So, those Athearn NP/GN 40ft boxcars may be too modern for my planned branch? Is there some unlettered old-style boxcars, flat cars, or gondolas (40ft or shorter) on the market, for affordable price?
What you need for boxcars is U.S.R.A. type boxcars. Ertl used to make very nice ones. Accurail still does make good ones. Any 40 foot gondola would be appropriate, as would 40 foot flat cars. The 8000 to 10000 gallon tank cars made by Intermountain, Tichy, Red Caboose and LifeLike-Walthers-Proto 2000 are also good. Most of your house cars (box, reefer) should be of wood sheathed construction. By the way, NP’s #4 Heisler was a rather rare saddle tank type-just so you know.
First of all, here is a link to hundreds of photographs of logging in the Pacific Northwest. If you click on the search function, you will get a drop down menu that will guide you through the photos.
Logging in Minnesota was very different. The logging tended to be done in winter so they could drag the logs across the snow. They would pile them up and wait for the rivers to melt then they would float them to the mills.
Without a lot of space it would be hard to model either operation with a degree of accuracy. However, there are layouts that are more of a caricature of operations like that of Paul Templar.
Don’t forget loggingin Idaho. 4-6-0s and mikes were the standard rod engines with the occasional mallet logger. Also Heislers. The were part of an NP/UP joint operation in the area.
My husband and I too have Northern Pacific as our main road name. We chose the late 40’s to allow for overlap between steam and diesel. Our logging locos are represented by Weyerhaeuser and our own private logging company. At this time, we have the Bachmann 3-Truck Shay and a MDC 2-Truck Shay. The 2-Truck Shay has been regeared with NWSL kits and they move 6 loaded log cars up a 6% grade with little trouble (providing the track is kept clean). The 3-Trucker is not as tough. (That will get some people riled up.[(-D])
We used Kadee #107 disconnect log trucks and Rivarossi skeleton cars with Weyerhaeuser and NP road names.
Other have answered most of your other questions better than I can. The Rivarossi Heisler (I have one) has the scale dimensions of some of the biggest Heislers ever built. The Bachmann Shay is also a model of a large Shay. Both models are somewhat oversize, as are most HO geared locomotive models, for typical logging operations. In the real world, the large geared engines were not built until the 1920s, so the late '20s would be the earliest practical era. In the Pacific Northwest, railroad logging operations started dying out in the 1930s (as roads were built and trucks took over), with most shutting down in the '40s and early '50s.
Even in the U.S. Pacific Northwest, rainfall is very seasonal, with most all of the rain/snow coming between October and April. This is even more pronounced as you go south into California. In the early days of logging, streams were the preferred method to move logs to the sawmill. The streams
You will find in a logging operation a great variety of equipment, a lot of cast off railroad power was bought by logging companies so you would see an amazing variety of locos and cars, also some of the most innovative home-made equipment was put to use on these operations, the reason I enjoy logging is the great amount of different “stuff” used. Someone said he saw an old F-7 pushing a string of log cars out west, so it seems, anything goes.
One thing to consider is what season of the year you want to model. You mentioned Minnesota as a possibility - in the Great Lakes region, logging generally took place in areas that were very marshy/swampy. Roads coming out of the woods were often too soft in the warm weather months to support the heavy logs and horse teams, plus the marshes were breeding grounds for ungodly amounts of biting flying insects. So logging was primarily done in the winter.
Also, in MN the grades weren’t as severe as in other areas, so many logging lines used old second- or third-hand rod engines…although there were a fair number of Shays and Climaxes used too, they probably made up maybe 1/3-1/2 of the total. Probably the most common logging engine in MN was the 2-6-0.
A GN 2-6-0 on the NP would be a bit unusual, but as noted above, an old GN 2-6-0 that had been bought by a logging company would be fairly common.
Frank King’s “Logging Railroads of Minnesota” was reissued in softcover a few years ago, and is a great source of info if you do think you might want to model northern MN logging.
Thommo, the Accurail cars are very easy to assemble. I don’t believe at this time they come equipped with metal wheelsets, but that is easily done with aftermarket sets. I have never used Bachmann EZ mate couplers at all, so I couldn’t say. I use Kadee exclusively. Hope this helps too.
