OK I am still kinda new to the forum, and this is the only forum I belong to so far. Of course I have heard and used the term “newbie” before on posts. I would like to know what the forum’s definition is of a “newbie.”
This question arose as SpaceMouse (Chip) was recently referred to as a newbie. For all I knew, by the looks of his modeling, I figured he’d been in the hobby for years. To learn from someone else that he’s been in our hobby for 18 months was a little surprising…in one way because I really thought Chip had been around model railroading longer than that, but also I was surprised that someone who has been involved in the hobby for a year and a half (especially to the extent of Chip) would still be considered a newbie.
So I’m not trying to start anything here other than a semi-intelligent discussion…but when does a newbie graduate to the next level?
Not a stupid question? Sure about that? Who could really difine “newbie” officially? You will get 25 answers from 25 responders so Stupid, maybe not or maybe so. You be the judge. I will not judge it
As I see it, those who look at the “Newbie” purely from the point of view of seniority are missing some key points.
What is the level of modeling ability displayed? A trained jeweler or denture maker could probably scratchbuild a museum quality Erie triplex as a first effort, while still knowing zip about the railroad that ran it.
How much does (s)he know about 1:1 scale railroading? A historian might know the name of every railroad president’s wife, while finding assembling a BB freight car a challenge.
Does he have an operating layout? I don’t believe either Mel Thornburgh or Bill Hoffman ever did - but boy! could they scratch build locomotives and traction cars.
Do other people find his advice and opinions useful? I certainly respect Spacemouse for his - and I have well over a half-century of seniority as a practicing model railroader.
Most important of all - in one way or another we are all newbies. All of us have blank zones in the spectrum of model railroading, where we can’t say, “Been there, done that.”
Model railroading is FUN - no matter how long you’ve been at it or what you still need to learn.
Chuck (DCC pre-newbie - never had it, doesn’t plan to start)
Something tells me the first two responses were not serious…at least, I sure hope so.
The term, as I understand it, is either a form of self-deprecation or it is a pejorative, depending on whether one labels one’self that way or is labeled. It means someone who is, in relative terms, new to the hobby and, shall we say, needy.
I find it disappointing, having taught all my life, that some people close-guard their knowledge as if it could be stolen from them. Yet, while declining to share, they impugn those who, while struggling to come to terms with the hobby, seek assistance. It is a good thing Newton taught at Cambridge after he made his mark. His learning led to the technology, via Einstein, that takes into account gravitation wells, doppler effects, and so on, without which our satellite communications could not function.
As long as there is something new to learn in this hobby, I will always consider myself a “newbie” (although I have been involved in this hobby since 1988). I guess a more appropriate term would be inexperienced. It seems that a lot of folks also consider newbie an offensive term, so I do not like to put that label on folks.
Not a stupid question at all but a very hard one to answer. I think Chuck’s well thought out answer was great. On this forum newbie is often used to put down someone who is new to the forum. I have been a model railroader for 50+ years. When I first joined I asked a question about a project I was planning. One of the older members came back with a pompous a## answer refer ing to me as a newbie. When I called him on it he said he meant to the forum not the hobby.
I’ve been in the hobby since June of 1967, guess that means I’ve probably graduated out of the newbie ranks. [swg]
Seriously, it seems to me graduating beyond newbie-ness is more dependent on what you’ve learned so far rather than how much calendar time has passed since you “joined up”. If you can answer the following questions with confidence, then you’ve graduated beyond beginner level newbie-ness. [8)]
You know what an NMRA guage is and how to use it.
You know about Kadee couplers and you understand basically why they’re the defacto standard today.
You understand basic layout design best practices like using staging and why runarounds are important to yard and industrial switching.
You can name the different parts of a turnout and you know the difference between live frog and dead frog turnouts.
You know basically what DCC is for, you know basically what a mobile decoder is, and you can name at least 5 DCC manufacturers.
You know basically when the steam-to-diesel transition was, roughly when the use of roofwalks was discontinued, and when the Amtrak era began. You can define the terms first-generation diesel and second generation diesel.
You know what rail code is and which rail code is the most realistic size for mainline track in your scale.
You can name the 6 major scales and you can name them in order from largest to smallest. You know which scale you model in, and you can name its ratio. You also understand niche scale terms like HOn3 and what they basically mean.
You know basically the difference between a hopper, covered hopper and between a flatcar, bulkhead flat car, and a centerbeam flatcar.
You can name at least six class 1 prototype railroad names.
You are familiar with terms like journal, FRED, ditch lights, semaphore, CTC, and facing point turnout, and can define them.
You can name at least a dozen of the major model manufacturers and what their signature product line
I agree that this would be one test. It is not, in itself, THE test though. I am not a hobby newbie; just somewhat out-of-date. I tore down a large HO layout 12 years ago and am just getting back into the hobby, I model a turn of the 20th century fictional layout based on Colorado silver mining (just like the torn down layout). I am a newbie to this forum (not to the internet or computer usage). My response to your “test” is interspersed below.
Yep - this I can handle.
I don’t know why; however I have been using them for 15 years, because they work well.
Some of this I know; I am only concerned with what applies to my layout, not what other schemes would need/require.
OK - this I can do.
This I can handle; because I looked everything up and then converted to DCC all of my plans and old engines. It is a giant step above DC.
I don’t like the term “newbie.” It’s used around here like “rookie.” It’s used to dismiss the opinions of some and to artificially elevate the opinions of others. Novice might be a better way to describe it, but even then, someone will start using it as a way to exclude. This isn’t a frat or a country club; we don’t need a caste system here.
For the record I started out in 1981, when I was 7. I had a 4x6 HO layout then, and have been an avid modeler since.
Whatever happened to the term Green Hand,or Cheechako, comes from livin 28 years in Alaska. Or tenderfoot.or dudes maybe. I think Fugates test does a pretty good job of formalizing the end of being new. Now its on to MMR!!![alien]
This line of talk is getting a bit far from the originator’s question, but in response to Joe, and with deference, I think a better test, a more generic and generalizable one, would be something like the following:
a. Can you explain why planning a layout is important to success?
b. Can you explain the difference between Direct Current and Digital Control applications with respect to model railroading?
c. What about curved trackage is relevant to the type of railroading you intend to duplicate?
d. Describe three of the methods of layout construction, and explain the benefits and limitations of each.
e. What is a good source of standards in the hobby of Model Railroading? Give four examples of areas of model railroading to which these standards apply.
Practical-
Construct a layout, complete with track, scenery, and wiring to a power source. This can be any form you chose, as long as scale locomotives can pull a train of ten properly weighted cars around the entire layout trackage, and have to divert and revert to the main line trackage at least once, without derailing, on two consecutive trips.
I have not thought long and hard about this, clearly, but I believe something like the above would be a truer test beyond which a person would earn the right to be called experienced. Thereafter, experience would be relative.
I’ve been building model railroad layouts for almost 60 years and couldn’t answer some of the questions because they cover topics that are of no interest to me. I doubt that qualifies me as a Newbie. I haven’t a clue about roofwalks, DCC manufacturers, staging specifics, facing point turnouts, etc, etc…and really don’t think about those things.
But yet, I can tell you how to build sturdy benchwork, dependable trackwork, reliable wiring, realistic scenery to include mountains, water and trees, backdrop painting, effective lighting and scene-specific detailing…to name a few things.
I have no interest in the diameter of the ditch light lens on a SD70M leased from XYZ company in April '98 because I’d rather run my trains than count the rivets on that SD70M’s fuel tank. Some people receive great satisfaction doing that. I enjoy other things. That’s why this is a great hobby because there is something for everyone.
In my opinion, the only criteria for being a model railroader is ownership of some sort of toy train & track used for entertainment. Good imagination skills are optional.
PS…This a generic answer and not a response to anyone in particular because you all bring up good points worthy of consideration.
Newbie is a term an individual might apply to themselves by way of acknowleging their recent entrance into the forum or the hobby.
There is no formal exam or graduation from newbiehood as occurs for say a freshman. In the past, a newbie ceased to be a newbie after they had posted at least 10 polls, one of which had to be “Which scale do you all model?” To fully graduate you had to learn to put “Other” as a poll choice.
There is nothing wrong in being a newbie. We were all newbies at one time or another.
Wait you mean I’ve got to take a test, Oh no I thought that ended with school.(only joking). I don’t mind being a newbie(started 9/13/05) because I can ask stupid questions and every one thinks it’s just because I’m new(not because I’m stupid<which I’m not by the way).
I’ve been involved in this hobby on and off since age 12; didn’t have a layout of my own at first, but amassed a sizeable collection of Athearn BBs, kitbashed and painted them to match B&O prototypes, and ran them on the BSME club layout. Took a “sabbatical” from MRR between the ages of 19 and 33, then tried my hand at layout building when I came back. The results of my early work were mediocre but at least I got enough enjoyment to make it all worthwhile.
It was when I was planning my 3rd layout that I discovered this forum (2003), and that there are many helpful people here willing to show me better modeling methods - and answer questions about things I still haven’t done yet. So I put on my “newbie” hat when I have a question, while other times I have the answer to somebody else’s question.
The only time I’ve used the term against anyone else is when said “newbie” is both new to the forum and causing trouble by trolling.
When you see someone post here in an inflammitory way that is sure to burn someone’s biscuits, yet the poster only joined up within the last 30 days…there’s a “newbie”. It doesn’t matter to me if the guy has been model railroading for 50 years. Come here and make trouble and you’ll get trouble right backatcha until Bergie pulls the plug.
I agree with those that have said “newbie” is a kind of derrogatory term … “newcomer” is less condescending.
I notice my test did make a few of you think, though, didn’t it? [swg]
With some discussion we could probably agree on a general set of questions that would cover it pretty well, but you get the idea. When someone comes on the forum and asks how to get their trains to track better on their switches and when you give them some pointers they ask “what’s a closure rail?” then you know you’ve got a live one – er, ah, I mean a newcomer. [:D]
I’m starting my 45th year in this hobby and I don’t make the same mistakes - well, rarely make the same mistakes - today as I did 45 years ago but I can still make some pretty stupid mistakes.
My stock in trade - craft if you would - before I joined the Air Force in 1958 was as a cowhand - don’t ever call me a cowboy unless you want to get punched. We used to call those “kids” from the city who had seen too many Hopalong Cassidy episodes on TV “greeners”; greenhorns were city slickers who got their 1955 Chevys stuck in mudpuddles. Cowboyin’ ain’t romantic; its just godd*mned hard work! - and being basically lazy I got out of it early and have never desired to go back to it - write about it, yes; go back to it, never.
Just exactly what was a greener; well, one definition was someone still trying to figure out which end of a horse did what. (One of the stock jokes was that you couldn’t give a greener a pitchfork until he learned one end of a horse from the other!!!) Generally a greener was someone who couldn’t form a honda, or build a loop, or doctor cows. Every top hand had been a greener at one time or another and some of the best windies spun in the bunkhouse was from top hands telling stories of their days as a greener. Most humor directed at greeners was good-natured and there were enough practical jokes to spread around between greeners and seasoned hands. A greener who started bellyaching that he was being “picked on” was serving notice that he was a “bunch quitter in training” and he was usually back in mom’s ever-lovin-arms shortly.
When did a greener stop being a greener; generally when his confidence level in his skill built up to the point that he got tired of being called a greener and informed you that he wasn’t going to take being called a greener anymore. The rite of passage was when the boss trusted you to make “bog rides” on your lonesome; it takes a skilled hand to drag a bogged