While some 3-rail trains do fall into the “Toy Train” category, there are some very impressive models, that the only detail they are lacking is the “proto-typical” number of rails that they run on. Here is just a sample of some of the Beauties available in 3-Rail Scale size trains.
Click pics to enlarge
Doug
Some More
Sorry about this one being a bit over-exposed, I’m still getting used to digital cameras,
Again Click pics to enlarge
I don’t want You Loggers out there to feel left out, here is a Shay for You guys.
Click on pics to enlarge
This gives a Good comparison, Very similar locomotives, same road names and #s the O Scale is a Lionel, and the HO is a Bachmann Spectrum.
Doug
Scale (or close to it) on center-rail track used to be called Hi-Rail. Maybe we should push to revitalize that usage.
Of course, Marklin HO has always been center rail - but, with stud contacts, it isn’t as obvious.
If those gorgeous hi-rail locos have long pickup shoes, not Lionel-style rollers, they, too, could operate on stud contacts and eliminate the center rail.
My personal heartburn isn’t with the rolling stock. It’s the appearance of the track itself. Isn’t that why GarGraves ‘de-emphasizes’ the center rail? OTOH, having both running rails the same polarity simplifies the installation of track detection by a factor of ridiculous.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Hi Chuck,
Yes, the term Hi-Rail is still very much in use. I haven’t built a permanent home layout yet, still operating on the Christmas Tree Carpet & Western. The FEF-3s had some confusion about their minimum radius requirements, catalog said O-72, the box said O-54 and a member on the CTT forum was running his on O-27 profile O-54 curves without any trouble. The Christmas Tree sub-division of the CTC&W was built with MTH Realtrax O-54 specifically for the FEF-3s. Guess What, no go, so I will have to build a new platform for this years CTC&W Tree sub-div. But being forced to rebuild with O-72 curves, made me bite the bullet and buy that AC-9 that I had drooled over but wanted to avoid those real estate gobbling O-72 curves.
The outside rails being common simplifies a LOT of issues by a factor of rediculous, Wye’s, reverse Loops, Grade crossing and track signals? SIMPLE, SIMPLE, SIMPLE. And the sheer mass of these things is almost (maybe IS) Addictive.
The 2007 Christmas Tree sub-division of the CTC&W, click pics to enlarge
I ran out of time before Christmas, and didn’t get beyond the plywood turf stage on the scenery.
Some more Favorites from the roster of the CTC&W.
Here is another nice O/HO comparison, this time Both models by Lionel, same road#s [:-^], a couple of my Favorites.
Doug
Doug & Chuck,
I’m going to show my 3-rail naivity here. Has any manufacturer ever contemplated “hiding” the 3rd rail so that it isn’t so obvious? Is there something that makes contact with the middle or 3rd rail that would prevent it from being run in a slot on the underside of the ties so that it’s less noticeable? If it could be, it would then be possible to completely cover it over with ballast.
My guess is that it somehow can’t. Otherwise, someone would have already done it. I thought I’d ask anyhow.
Tom
I know that some of the more accurate models are available in either 2 or 3 rail. I really have triuble with that third rail. my mind just equates everything that runs on it with my old Lionel " toy" trains. Yes, the third rail along with the high rails & the small radius curves says toy to me…Sorry.
'Morning, Tom.
The center rail is contacted either by a sliding shoe or a spring-loaded roller, so it has to be up on top where the contact gadget can reach it. Stud contacts replace the center rail with a line of conductive pins, one per tie. The sliding shoe can bridge these, but the little roller has to have a solid rail.
Some ‘wireless streetcars’ ran with a shoe that passed through a narrow slot in the street and contacted a subterranean third rail. The problem is, you have to have a specific spot with no pavement (or other impedimentia) between the rails - which will be the ONLY place where the powered or lighted rolling stock can be placed on or removed from the rails. With streetcars, it was the inspection pit in the car barn. For a model Big Boy with three shoes - ??? Also, I don’t know if a model right-of-way that looks like a slot car track could be considered an improvement.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Hi Tom,
Some manufacturers “Blacken” the center rail, maybe that is how Gargraves de-emphasizes it as Chuck mentions, I am not familiar with Gargraves beyond recognizing their name as a track mfgr. In 3-rail, the trains run on AC power, with the center “Third” rail being the “HOT” rail, and the two outside rails being common ground. So there does need to be contact with the third rail, in O-Gauge that is usually by means of multiple center rollers. The reason that Joshua Lionel Cowen went to 3-rail back in 1906, is so that a Kid could take a pile of track, and “Do no Wrong” electrically. Reverse loops and Wye’s don’t create shorts because the center “HOT” rail is ALWAYS the center rail regardless of how the track might be configured.
With the two outside rails being a common ground, all kinds of things such as track detection as Chuck mentioned, as well as crossing and track signals are simplified as Chuck mentioned, by a factor of ridiculous. The train doesn’t care which rail it grounds through, so by insulating ONE outside rail, You can wire your detection, signals or other function “Hot” then ground through the insulated rail, placing your insulated rail joiners at the points that you desire the detection function to work at, the wheels and axles on 3-rail equipment are not insulated and will shunt the ground through the wheel sets, acting as a toggle switch to turn your function on as the train enters the insulated zone, and off again as it leaves it.
With a blackened center rail on a nicely detailed “Hi-rail” layout the eye/mind will ignore the center rail, much the way that it knows but ignores the fact that any layout is so far out of scale where distances are concerned. For example, I am a member of a large HO club here in Portland,OR our layout room is 4200 square feet at 60x70, a size that most can only DREAM about having to work with. We model the Columbia River Gorge
I suspect even the fussiest scale model railroader would be happy to have a Lionel 700E scale Hudson from the 1930s in his collection – if you can get one in good condition. The scale 0-6-0 from the 1940s is also a nice model.
When you see a really nice Lionel layout with scenery and good buildings and smooth curves that uses only the scale-quality equipment and sound (an excellent example here in the Milwaukee area is Kalmbach staffer Kent Johnson’s) you hardly notice the middle rail.
Dave Nelson
Not as detailed as their HO counterparts, but still very nice models. I saw a show on an MTH/RailKing layout and was amazed at the level of detail. They produce some really nice stuff.
Hi Doug
I gots some bad news for ya…
there
all
toys…
[:O]
just
very
expensive
toys…
[swg]
…love the pics. [tup]
I wonder if the centre rail, aside from being blackened, and then hidden that much more with good weathering (like the oil streak down the middle of the ballast) could also be reduced in profile by maybe 25%. It would really help.
A local Hi-Rail modeller has some very nice (and very expensive) engines made of brass. They would compare nicely with their HO counterparts.
That ‘Hi-Rail’ AC-9 just FLOORED me! Talk about one beautiful model! Now if we could get one in HO that ISN’T either an old Akane or newer really expensive brass–ah, dream away, baby.
Those are beautiful models. Just beautiful.
Tom [:P]
I hate to tell you this but ALL model trains are toy trains - even the scale ones.
Sorry, I just can’t accept the look of a third rail on a model railroad unless one is modeling dual gauge or a cog railway. I’ll admit, however, modeling a working track switch for a cog railway would be difficult, particular if modeling the Locher rack system (look up “rack railway” in Wikidpedia for an explanation of that system) as used on Mt. Pilatus, Switzerland because the turnouts rotate as pictured below.
Mark
A lot of people consider the better brass models to be “works of art.”
Mark
Chuck and Doug,
Thanks for the explanations. I sorta thought that might be the issue.
Tom
What ever happened to Lionel’s “Super O” track? Back when I was a kid (and dinosaurs roamed the land) we had O27, O and then Lionel came out with Super O. Unlike their standard sectional track with 3 metal ties per section, Super O had brown plastic ties, much more prototypically sized and spaced. The ties were not flat, but rather humped up in the center, and the center “rail” was much smaller and narrower, since it didn’t have to accept flanges.
Super O was much more expensive even than standard Lionel O-gauge track, but it really looked a lot better. Besides the ties, the center rail was much less obvious.
I was going to ignore this thread, BUT, I just HAVE to chime in with my .002 (tax exempt).
Atlas’ 21st century 3 rail track has a chemically blackened center rail, HOWEVER, it’s still very visable.
GarGraves is a traditional style hi-rail track, (read tubular steel) that, although better than traditional track, is still a bit on the obnoxious side.
As for Lionel’s Super O, it was a victim of the decline in the 3 rail side of the 1960s. The center rail is more of a blade, than an actual rail, and was far less visable.
Being a 2 rail O scaler, I’m forever being asked “where’s the center rail?”
