Is it just me; or could this catalogue been 50 pages shorter by just showing the NEW stuff and not the old stuff too.??
I guess some dealers still have GS-2s and GS-64s Or was this re-printed because the flyer was nice Or to sell the passenger cars??
OK already with the Acela; it says it is “sold out” so why make some of you out there more miserable because they missed out or don’t have an extra $2K handy.
And WOW a GG1 like MTH’s with moving pantographs… well I guess they did have it first with the ACELA
Gosh don’t we have enough Christmas trains and cars already. How big is your tree?
And talk about self promotion… what is it with the Neil Young Train… It is nice there is an Elvis set to offset it . Makes me think that some new Lionel Recording artists are in the making for 2005 like the Backshop Boys or maybe the Chuff-in-Syncs, or a new teen-girl singer Berkity Shires. I understand at 18, she’s still a virginian.
The GG-1 does look impressive, though. This is the first O gauge GG-1 modeled with the later high mounted air intakes that were installed after a massive GG-1 failure in the '50s. Also, I think that it’s the first in any scale to have a smoke unit :).
Also, the pantographs can be activated from the CAB-1, as opposed to the simple opening ones of MTH(which all Lionel GG-1s have had, as well).
I’ve only looked at the catalog on line… I always like having the hard copy to make a real complete assessment. But some immediate observations… yes, there are many repeat items from the first edition catalog. In fairness MTH and K-Line both do the same thing, so Lionel is not alone.
I think the opening statement is an improvement over the past couple. But I also think overall Lionel is still catering to the established, well-to-do adult market, despite a few offerings otherwise, like the Thomas Set and the Polar Express set. Prices are still ridiculously high - not that there was any indication that they would be otherwise. $60 for an operating car like the aquarium car is one thing; $60 for flat car with a tractor on it is totally obscene.
Previous statements from Lionel have indicated concern with the collector market, the after-sale market and stabliization of these prices. Lionel should just worry about making and marketing quality affordable trains. I don’t doubt for a moment that the high prices on things like the postwar reissue series are intentional to prevent contributing to a substantial drop in collector values on the orignal pieces. I also don’t doubt that Lionel is also using “selective pricing” with the intent of using product from long existing, paid for dies to help pay for the many new items that are being made from new tooling and dies that hasn’t yet seen a return.
The “Greendale” Neil Young set is an obvious “T-bone” to the collectors. The rest of us get “mashed potatoes.” I suspect your typical run-of-the-mill Neil Young fan doesn’t have $600 to drop on a Lionel train set. Far more would have been accomplished by making a more affordable set in larger numbers that might appeal to new customers as well as train collectors, and even Neil Young fans. What’s next… Neil Young concerts in Vegas at $300 per seat??
I wonder if anyone at Lionel has actually listened to the “Greendale” album… Greendale’s this small town that seems to have mo
Very well written Brian. All excellent points. Sadly I think Lionel is beginning to price themselves out of the market. I am amazed that they think that high prices are not an issue for many modlers. It’s easy for us to fix the cost problem though - just don’t pay it. Model trains can’t make money collecting dust on warehouse shelves. Eventually someone is going to have to be held accountable for the decisions that are being made in the corprate offices. Of course, out of the bad can come some good, maybe the market will open up for some of the smaller manufactuers like Williams an K Line. Dollars are still dollars, and with the economy the way it is, how far your dollars go is increasingly important.
As for the products, I was happy to see the PC G with the modification, but the price is way too high. The overland flyer set was right up my alley but again the price… BTW I wonder if Lionel paid the copyright fee to UP for this one? The first catalog teased of many more Fastrack items that were going to be offered in book 2. I saw only one - a lighted bumper block. The remote control switches were shown in more detail, but how excited can one get about a switch?
What is the positive to come out of both Lionel’ s catalogs this year? I 'll only have to budget a little bit of money for a few of their new products this year. 'Cause there isn’t very much I am interested in at all.
I looked through it twice [did not study it] but did not see the line of Lionmaster diesels but only steamers. My “train lady” said there were to many “repeats” and that made for double ordering from customers.
I think it might be nice to slow down the pace of new offerings (ouch, that hurts!).
W/lawsuits from UP/MTH and slow economy, not good to spread yourself too thin. Same advice for the other companies.
Good for hobbyists too, as they may take up custom painting or kitbashing.
Not advice, just a thought, looking at it from the flip side.
If anything should increase, I’d say it should be low-cost starter sets. Not hard to do; just package together existing pieces in different ways. No brainer there.
Some interesting comments - I didn’t have the time to read through everything, so I’ll come back later and do that.
As someone who recently got back into model RR’ing, one of the things that jumped out at me were the prices. I’m sure there’s a “collectors” segment of the market out there that can afford these models, but Lionel should be focusing more on their future customers: today’s kids. Parents probably look at the prices of some of these starter sets and opt to buy other toys for their kids. There really isn’t any entry level pricing for this hobby for children. $250 for a starter set, with just a single loop of track (even with Lionel trumpeting how their starter loop is bigger then MTH’s [:P]), will definitely run some parents out of the store.
My take is more positive. I think they’re, more than any other manufacturer/importer trying to address the full range of interests in three rail, from whimsical operating boxcars to Disney and Elvis collectors, to Neil Young fans, to those who like $1,000 + scale locomotives, $25 and less starter O27 rolling stock, conventional and command engines, scale and not so scale (Williams doesn’t have a $99 MSRP steam loco, do they?), operating accessories, conventional track, ballasted track, and so on. It’s a diverse hobby and the catalog is diverse. So any one individual may only find a few items of interest. I’m only interested in the New Haven PAs, maybe the NYC FA2s, a few rolling stock and probably a few PWC items. I’d like to see some prewar or Standard gauge repros, but that appears out of the question.
I think they’ve addressed some of the complaints one hears such as not enough conventional stuff, 4 chuffs per revolution, more O27 type stuff, some O27 locos at decent pricing, more PWC stuff, and continued interesting, if pricey structures and accessories. They wouldn’t be making this stuff if we weren’t buying it :).
After going through several LHS’ here in the Twin Cities and surrounding suburbs, I would have to kind of disagree with that statement
In every one there is alot of excess stock in all price ranges. Looking at it from the perspective of not having alot of money-while I can find alot of rolling stock that is reasonable–you can’t run it without loco’s, track, and power. That is where the big bite seems to come in alot of the time.
I just wonder if they are going to let Thomas the Tank Engine wither on the vine again as they have done twice before. They got off to a good start by putting couplers on Annie and Clarabel and three-position directional unit on Thomas, but there (so far) has not been any followup pieces announced. It would be an excellent way to get kids involved, but without at least more rolling stock, the set is a curiosity more than anything that can be built upon.
Would somebody tell me what is so horrible about Lionel repeating some things in the current catalog from previous ones? The postwar catalogs did it all the time. Maybe some of us passed on the repeats the first time, and this is a reminder that they are still available in case we changed our minds. Also, what about new people in the hobby who didn’t see the previous catalogs?
Although there are not many items I want from the new catalog, repeating some things is no big deal to me.
The plus that you lightly touched on is that these are available to those who perhaps couldn’t afford them at the time.
I think that with a few exceptions (such notable things as Gunderson stacks and tri or bi level open auto carriers–87ft), there are very few common and major items not available or if omitted, could be modified with a minimum of work or repaint.
I do agree, however, reg. putting in Acela & saying “Sold Out” (as reported above but haven’t personally verified)
I agree with you, Neil. As I stated on another recent thread, it seems to me that Lionel could do a heck of a lot more with their product line than they are. Let’s face the facts: MTH has it all over Lionel when it comes to prewar reproductions. I’ve bought almost all of the prewar repros that Lionel has done over the past few years (Hell-Gate bridge, #840 power station, etc.), and they were all outstanding products - and they had the Lionel name on them! But alas, it seems that Lionel doesn’t want to commit to continue to produce these items. Oh well - Lionel’s loss is Mike Wolf’s gain… again.
Having just seen it online and not in person I thought the catalog was ok. I was hoping to find two things that were not there. One was a work caboose or some kind of matching car for the new TMCC crane cars. I was looking for one to match my Santa Fe. I was also hoping for a station sounds car for either of the 2 ACL passenger trains that were previously released. ( The silver or purple sets)…or a 2car add on set for the purple cars.
The good news on prices is that if I preorder any car from my local dealer it will be at a discounted price.
I guess I’m one of the those who prefer Lionel over other makes. Maybe I am just old fashioned.
ok for some of you who dont mind the repeats, but my catalogue shelf is heavy already.
For the record, the list below gives the pages in the Polar Express cat. then the repeated pages in Volume 2 with a running count of the repeated pages:
.
Polar Exprs Vol 2 TOT REPEATS
pages 4,5 pages 6,7 2
6,7 8,9 4
8,9 10,11 6
10,11 11,12 7 Elvis is new
12,13 16,17 9
14,15 18,19 11
16,17 22-25 13 new xmas boxcars
18,19 32,33 14 new RG set
22,23 34,35 16
30,31 36,37 17 new acela details
34-37 38-41 21
40-41 44-45 23
43 46-47 25 expanded pictures
42 48 26
46-47 50-51 28
48-49 49 29
Special Flyer 54-55 31 GS2 GS64
52-55 58-60 33
56-63 62-67 39
74-75 80-81 41
76-87 82-91 51 the word NEW is used in both
96-97 96-97 53
99 99 54
106-109 106-109 58
116-117 142-143 60 train orders buldg on page 138
TOTAL REPEATED PAGES=60
That’s 60 pages repeated of a 188 page cat. (1/3 repeated) and some of it is already out.
I think that One third without counting the usual track and transformer stuff that is always repeated is excessive.
Items being repeated in catalog releases I guess is a matter of opinion. Jim is right that this has been done in the past. Then there was the period of the “Traditional” and “Collector” catalogs, then the Book One and Book Two (smaller catalogs without the repeats). Since we’ve entered the period of the 100+ page catalog, I don’t think anyone wants to be left out of the fray.
For us more knowledgeable train guys, we notice this kind of stuff. But as Jim also mentioned, I’m sure there are folks who will see Volume One and may not see Volume Two. Since the train companies don’t do mainstream national advertising, the catalogs serve not only to illustrate the product line, but to also generate excitement and publicity.
I will agree with nblum that Lionel does have probably the most diverse product lines. In the case of the lower end cars, others may have more affordable product, but Lionel has continued to expand the line and change road names frequently. The MTH Rugged Rails line has had zero additions since it’s inception other that some cars available in sets only. And K-Line’s Train 19 line has also languished in roadnames and new offerings.
In the case of the Greendale set, this isn’t for Neil Young fans, even if it is a Neil Young train set. It’s for die-hard train collectors who are looking to sta***he set away and watch it increase in value. To them, “Heart Of Gold” has a lot more to do with Fort Knox than with looking for love. Believe me, I’ve been to loads of Neil Young concerts and don’t see many folks who are gonna spend $600 on a train set. The fact Lionel is only making 500 of them proves my point. The die-hard Neil Young fans are still waiting for “Time Fades Away” on CD and the long talked about, way over due Neil Young Archives Collection.
Maybe Lionel should do a “Closing Down the Amercian Factory” Train Set: Flat cars with boxes, equipment and containers heading off to the west coast for the boat ride to China. There could be a separate sale pas
Lionel has been getting lots of requests for a scale GG-1. Mainly from those of us who have a TMCC operating system. No DCS for me. One operating system is all I need.
I agree that one operating system is enough for some of us. I’m using DCS and look more to MTH for products compatible. It’s a shame we don’t have a standard operating system like everyone else (DCC).
:).