Not pleased (putting in mildly) with Digitrax ...

Model Railroader Electronics and DCC
1

After a close to $500 outlay for a Super Empire Builder Xtra kit, PS 514 power supply, a couple of AR1’s, extra UP5’s, a PM 42 and PS14 power supply for it, I began mounting the components yesterday. Right off I found out:

(1) the PS 514 power supply is a 4 amp max vs. a 5 amp capacity as sold,

(2) the user manual is outdated (2009 last revision) and still references the discontinued PS 515 power supply with the higher 5 amp max output in numerous instances,

(3) the attached sticker on the enclosed card in the PS 514 bubble pack notes to use the “white” adaptor banana plug with the pig tail that connects the power supply brick to the DB150 which, following the instruction, proved wrong where the inside diameter of the white adaptor banana plug is too large to make contact with the center pin of the pig tail connector.

I called Digitrax support this morning and the response I got was "oh, well, just use one of the adaptors of the included set that will fit. Well, gee… no kidding there Dick Tracy. And when I questioned the updated PS 514 version power supply having a max amp capacity of 4 amps instead of 5 amps with the PS 515 it replaces as referenced throughout the user manual I got a “yeah, I’ve talked to engineering about that and…”

I know all of this may sound petty on my part but from a first time DCC user standpoint where it not for the fact I have an electrical background I’d have been in trouble from the get-go with no power input to the DB 150 following the printed Digitrax hookup instructions for the PS 514.

And from reading up on the PM 42 I already know the Digitrax&

2

You’re right, since they’ve gone to FL, things have decreased as far as tech service. Hopefully you didn’t buy it online. In the MRR mag there is a group of companies that are into DCC sales, it’s yellow background. Anyway, TonysTrainXChange is one of the key guys in getting DCC started in the US and one of their service tech is an old Digitrax guy. Call them. I have found it key to buy from a retailer that can support you!! AFter reading your list, I suspect there’s a couple of items you’ll need which will make it worth the guys at Tony’s time to help you. But, they’re just good guys and probably would anyway.

http://www.tonystrains.com/

They sold me lots of my Digitrax equipment. I do like the system, particularly when interfaced with JMRI on my computer. I use the LocoBuffer system for that interface.

BTW, I would buy TCS decoders for non sound applications.

Richard

3

Where does it say that?

I know that some time back Digitrax changed their guidance (and their doc) as far as they no longer recommend using PM42 sections as auto-reversers powered by circuit breaker sections within the same PM42, but I’m not aware of anything that says you can’t power an AR1 from a PM42.

Good thing, because both my AR1’s are powered by a PM42 section. [:O]

4

Who did you buy this from? I would get back to them. As far as the Wall Wart P/S - this has been a moving target for all manufacturers. The current ones are the typical laptop supplies.= that are currently available, and the 'spec’s seem to vary between batches. I just looked at the wall wart PS for my HP UltraBook - 18.5 volts and 4 amps. As others have noted, check out Tony’s - He has a nice selection of DCC power supplies.

IIRC, the Digitrax EB Xtra starter sets do not include the external power supply in the base package. So I assume this was a packaged up deal from the dealer? Cutting of the ‘connector’ and inserting the bare wires into the terminals on the DB150 have always been required.

I have an AR1 that is in-line after a PM42 power district - Never had a problem. The club has multiple AR1’sand they works fine off of a PM42 power district.

Jim

5

What I am referring to is the tech support knowledge blurb that reads:

“The PM42 can be configured so that one section of the PM42 is used for circuit breaker operation, feeding into another section of the same PM42 which is configured for automatic reverse section control.”

Then follows this up with the caveat:

"In the field, this configuration has been found to be unreliable in some layout configurations. If you are having problems getting this to work in your setting, we recommend using an AR1 to handle the automatic reversing secion____."

My point is from a first time, no electrical background customer stand point, to first state you can configure the PM 42 as such t

6

I feel your pain. I would have been PO’ed too, then I would have taken everything back and bought a different manufacturers system.

7

Jim, the discontiued PS 515 replacement PS 514 voltage selections at 4 amps apply only to 12v, 13.8v and 15v with voltage options 16.8, 19 and 20v @ 3.5 amps and 24v @ 2.9 amps.

It’s not that the 15v @ 4 amps isn’t enough for my personal layout - it’s more than enough for what I’ll be running. It’s the principle of Digitrax’ non factual written data I noted compared to how their product is promoted. For me anyway. And just to mention I did buy the Digitrax gear at my LHS who only handles Digitrax.

8

I get your point, but I am not sure that I totally agree with you.

It says that the configuration has been found to be unreliable in some layout configurations, although it doesn’t indicate what those configurations might be.

9

As I said I just began mounting all the hardware so it’ll be some time - including running the a-b buss, track feeders, etc.,&nb

10

Hopefully, it will work as you want it to in your layout configuration.

Keep us posted and let us know how this all works out.

You may be pleasantly surprised at the outcome.

Rich

11

I have several PM42s acting as Auto Reversers being protected by one of the same PM42 as a Circuit Breaker!

This was way back in the old days before some on the Digitrax Forum complained they were having problems with this setup.

While one can not inspect each install - I found that having enough wire Drops in the Reverse Section as well as large enough Buss Wire went a long way in making the the PM42 Reverser work correctly.

Too many times the Layout Owner wants to cut corners in wiring the layout stating 14# or #16 wire will work as good as #12 as they ony have a 5 amp system and they re NOT running a bunch of engines.

It isn’t the amp capacity but the resistance that kill most of these applications - that just goes over most peoples heads and even those that are knowledgeable in electronics.

I learned Command Control way back in the Keller Onboard & Dynatrol days where we learned the wiring problems all on our own as there was NO Internet.

Most now rely on the internet for everything and when there are conflicting replies they error on the cheaper side and run into problems.

So getting down off my Soap Box

The PM42 WILL work running Auto Reversers through the Circuit Breaker in the same board.

But be ready to do some experimenting wiring the Reverser Section and in setting the CVs in the PM42 to obtain the best results!

BOB H - Clarion, PA

12

Dunno, been using Diigitrax for 12 years, no problems, not one, ever.

Where’ts the 4 amps come from? It’s 70 watts, at 15V and less that’s near or over 5 amps.

Everyone’s gone to that type of power supply, because they are internationally universal, lighter, and common as dirt - it’s a laptop power supply. Big bulky too heavy to ship transformers which can only be sold in a couple of countries are gone for good, thank heaven.

As for the manual, it must have been old stock to have a revsion that old in the apckage. Blame your retailer, not Digitrax - you expect them to have the retailers return all old stock and repalce it? Luckily, the correct latest manual is only a click away. Probably should get the decoder manual too while you’re on the site, if the user manual was a 2009 revision, the decoder manual probably is too.

I dunno, I went and read the manuals and everything I could find BEFORE buying a system, and the Digitrax Loconet is still light years above what anyone else makes. Like Bob, I haven;t had any of the issues that keep popping up on the Digitrax Yahoo group. Mine stuff all just works. My Zephyr can program Tsunami decoders without blast mode. My PR3 can read and write Tsunami and QSI decoders, again with no booster and no special power supply, just a PS14. My trains just run, my PM42 reliably resets even with a bunch of sound locos sitting in the section that shorts, and it does shut off reliably, killing power only to the affected section, not shutting down the whole layout. I didn;t buy everything at once, I started with the Zephyr and have added a DT400, a DT402, a DB150, and a PM42. I even got a cheap used DT100 on eBay - and everything I have or had all still works, never had to send anything back for repairs. It’s been rock solid since Day 1.

Our club also runs Digitrax, and despite some well-intentioned but somewhat lacking in the technical ability members sometimes fat-fingering loco selections, it all runs quite well.

13

I have a love hate relationship with digitrax. I hate they default to universal consisting. It’s an outdated and limited feature set. Setting CV19 (Advanced consisting) is the way to go. It has so many benefits over universal consisting.

I find their interface extremely dated. I still haven’t figured out how to setup up a reverse orientation consist engine on my DCS51 (Zephyr Xtra). The manual doesn’t explain how to either.

I hate that you have to double strang braid your wire connections for high amp applications because their connectors won’t support high amp thick wires.

MRC and NCE are much better in this reguard.

But digitrax is slightly cheaper, has the greatest number of supported accessories, has the biggest user base and is bullet proof reliable.

I love the NCE’s clear simple directions on their display. It’s easy to remember what you have to do when you read the screen. But I’ve seen one too many boosters of theirs burn out due to overheating for whatever reason for me to want to purchase them.

I swear I’m going to create the ultimate hand held throttle one of these days based on the raspberry pi and a touch screen.

14

[quote user=“rrinker”]

Dunno, been using Diigitrax for 12 years, no problems, not one, ever.

Where’ts the 4 amps come from? It’s 70 watts, at 15V and less that’s near or over 5 amps.

Everyone’s gone to that type of power supply, because they are internationally universal, lighter, and common as dirt - it’s a laptop power supply. Big bulky too heavy to ship transformers which can only be sold in a couple of countries are gone for good, thank heaven.

As for the manual, it must have been old stock to have a revsion that old in the apckage. Blame your retailer, not Digitrax - you expect them to have the retailers return all old stock and repalce it? Luckily, the correct latest manual is only a click away. Probably should get the decoder manual too while you’re on the site, if the user manual was a 2009 revision, the decoder manual probably is too.

I dunno, I went and read the manuals and everything I could find BEFORE buying a system, and the Digitrax Loconet is still light years above what anyone else makes. Like Bob, I haven;t had any of the issues that keep popping up on the Digitrax Yahoo group. Mine stuff all just works. My Zephyr can program Tsunami decoders without blast mode. My PR3 can read and write Tsunami and QSI decoders, again with no booster and no special power supply, just a PS14. My trains just run, my PM42 reliably resets even with a bunch of sound locos sitting in the section that shorts, and it does shut off reliably, killing power only to the affected section, not shutting down the whole layout. I didn;t buy everything at once, I started with the Zephyr and have added a DT400, a DT402, a DB150, and a PM42. I even got a cheap used DT100 on eBay - and everything I have or had all still works, never had to send anything back for repairs. It’s been rock solid since Day 1.

Our club also runs Digitrax, and despite some well-intentioned but somewhat lacking in the technical ability members sometimes fat-fingering l

15

Let me end this with these comments. I posted my first time experience with Digitrax products and the encountered discrepencies in the written, out-of-box hookup instructions. I referenced website conflicting configuation statements by Digitrax. The less than stellar Digitrax tech support response I got as noted was - by far- not what I expected from a purported top notch DCC systems company.

And now having paid nearly $500 for the experience the ensuing debate here on the merits of Digitrax based on what may have been or is your experience as a long-timer with the product doesn’t make me wrong with my opinion of Digitrax based on what I ran into as a first timer, both with the company and DCC.

16

[quote user=“Over50”]

What I am referring to is the tech support knowledge blurb that reads:

“The PM42 can be configured so that one section of the PM42 is used for circuit breaker operation, feeding into another section of the same PM42 which is configured for automatic reverse section control.”

Then follows this up with the caveat:

"In the field, this configuration has been found to be unreliable in some layout configurations. If you are having problems getting this to work in your setting, we recommend using an AR1 to handle the automatic reversing secion____."

My point is from a first time, no electrical background customer stand point, to first stat

17

Digitrax and me go back a long way. The first two decoders I bought were plug and pray Digitrax. Both fried on the PROGRAM track. I took both the decoders and locos back to the dealer. He checked the locos and plugged in TCS decoders and they still have them 10 years later. I sent both decoders to Digitrax for warranty. They E-mailed me saying that they can be repaired for $15 each. WHAT??? Excuse me? They cost $12 to buy. What part of warranty do they not understand? I only made two mistakes. One was buying them the next was plugging them in. After I calmed down a little I responded that they can keep them and no other product on my layout will ever have the word Digitrax on it. Even my dealer was quite upset that he gave me the TCS decoders that he plugged in to replace the ones fried on a current limiting program track. Digitrax has never explained why they burnt out. And to this day I still have nothing that says Digitrax.

Pete

18

Hey mister over50. Does having an electrical background make you perfect? I don’t have an electrical background and I have had my DIGITRAX Super Chief Xtra since Feb. and I love it. I love the concise manuals that have helped me learn the system and DCC itself because I have been DC for almost 30 years. I love the systems potential. I had an AR1 that was not quite right and they sent me a new one in 7 days. When I have a question via email I always have an answer within the hour. I have the new PS514 power supply and it works perfectly.

I will say that reading the manual completely several times is important for everyone and keeping it handy when I run into something I’m not sure of. All I can say is that I don’t have an electrical background and I am not perfect and I am doing just fine with my new DIGITRAX SYSTEM. I have really felt after waiting for a year and studying the different DCC systems that I made the right choice. A new build and a switch to DCC has been a learning curve but what I know now has been gratifying for me.

Thats my take on things. Doug

19

When I am unhappy with something I take it back or sell it on eBay. I really like my NCE DCC systems (PowerCab & ProCab Wireless) but I have purchased then sold or returned Bachman, MRC and Digitrax DCC systems.

Did I lose money? Yup![:(]

Unfortunately I learn best by my own mistakes.[:S]

Cheers!

20

Having an electrical background makes us more knowledgeable than the average modeler reading about a system and hooking it up.

We tend to expect the manuals and paperwork for electrical systems and components to be right, because if they aren’t, someone could get hurt or killed. This is what we have come to expect in our line of work.

Any manufacturer of electrical products that doesn’t live up to these standards is always suspect. And make no mistake about it, a DCC system is an ELECTRICAL product.
Incorrectly wired model railroads have burned buildings down, and the correct wiring always starts with the manufacturers instructions of the product.