Not-so-good experience with Life-Like

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

A couple months ago, I got a Proto 2000 FA2/FB2. The FA2 unit was extremely noisy and slow. In fact, it was so slow, that the FB2 would lap it every other lap. This is not acceptable for an MU. The FB2 unit had a short and blew out 2 decoders. I called Life-Like and told them the problems and they told me to send the units in. I sent them in with the decoders as well as the replacement boards they sent to me.

I got them back today with the following letter:

Dear Mr. Englemann,

We are returning your locomotives without repair.

We can only in this case, provide you with replacement PC boards as we have done to return your loco to their original configuration. I’m sure you can understand that Life-Like cannot undertake to install, check out the operation and warrant decoders made by other manufacturers.

Since you are using Digitrax decoders, we strongly suggest that you contact their tech support folks for help in solving the operational problems you are encountering.

The noisy running sounds as if the motor shaft bearings need some lubrication. These are the bearings at the end of the worm, and where the shaft exits the motor housing.

Regards,
Chuck Frieldlein
manager, Product Development
Life-Like Products, LLC

Now I understand that they would not want to mess with the Digitrax decoders. But it seems to me, that if they knew that PC boards were bad and had them in their hands and they knew that the noise was caused by the motor shaft bearings, that these problems could have been handled. Problems that should not exist in a new engine.

But not only did they take a month to do nothing, they did not send back the replacement boards nor did they send back the Digitrax decoders. So not only am I no closer to solving the problem, I have to re-obtain the replacement boards and decoders.

When I called to get my decoders back and re-obtain the replacement boards,

2

Oh-oh… This doesn’t bode well for me.

I just sent back a brand new P2K GP9 that, straight out of the box, ran with a “thump-thump-thump”, like a gear was busted or it had a “flat tire” sound…hopefully they will fix it.

Did you ask what parts she meant that they couldn’t get? I don’t understand why the manufacturer of the loco couldn’t get parts for their own creation… P.U. something stinks…

3

Geeze, I have had exactly the opposite experience with LifeLike. I have never had to send anything back, but they have always sent me repair parts, no questions asked, and they paid the postage.

I would suggest that you phone them, tell them you have a defective motor in such-and-such a model, and the lady who answers the phone will probably just get your name and address and mail you a new one.

4

No wonder their warehouses are burning down. Life-Like is run by a bunch of flamers!

5

Petejung…
Let me know what you find in your GP-9. I have one that is doing the same thing but I haven’t ripped into it yet. I thought there was a lump of gunk on the wheel tread but that’s not the case.
I am waiting for a new headlight/ smokebox front for my Heritage NKP Berkshire.
Lifelike instructs you to change the bulb to a 12v but they don’t tell you that it will melt the headlight molding.
Its been 2 weeks… so far no go.
I’m waiting to hear from Broadway Limited, too. They had the wrong engine number in the box for my B&LE RSD-15. Now I have 2 of same number. Broadway says that must have been a factory mistake and they are sold out. They recommended I buy a sound version and sell the other one!
Ed

6

I suspect they will just swap the chassis.

7

In my experience with locos on the Siskiyou Line, Kato and Atlas run very well, but my “problem children” are the Lifelike P2Ks.

The P2K SD9s develop pickup problems that drive you to distraction. I’ve tried lots of different things, the most recent being adding brass wire wipers to the axle tips. This seems to come closest to solving the problem so far.

The P2K GP9s are another story. The gears in the trucks can be cracked, which causes them to run thump-thump. They rely on the truck contact with the frame for one side of the power pickup so I added a direct wire feed from the loco truck to the circuit board to solve this. Finally, they are swimming in lubricant which messes with the frame contact and attracts dirt. After fixing all this, the GP9s still run rough compared to the Katos and Atlases. My latest resort is to gut the GP9s and replace the mechanisms with Stewart guts from A-Line.

I recently spoke with a long time friend who works in my local hobby shop – he’s been there for years. He asked me which units gave me the most trouble and I said “the P2Ks”. He grinned and said “Yep! I finally just got rid of all my P2K stuff, nothing I tried would solve their problems.”

Although their SD9s and GP9s look great, they don’t stand up to constant use very well on a layout with regular operating sessions. I can’t speak for their other locos, but these units have sure been a disappointment.

8

Chuck leaves for China…and NO ONE else is put in charge to help in Customer Service & Repair. Not very wise business tactics. Chip, I would call the woman back that you talked to to find out exactly “what parts” they couldn’t get.

Tom

9

When I first called, the woman said that “Normally we would just send you a new chassis, but we don’t have any more.” That is when she suggested I send it in.

10

I really do not understand why you mailed them back with the decoders installed. I would remove the decoders, see if the problem still happened, and then mail the engine in if the problem persists. I would not expect L-L to work on a modified engine.
My dealings with L-L have been by email, and they have just sent me parts(cracked gears) - Very good service in all 3 times I have contacted them.

Jim

11

For those of you that have been following the Hogwart’s Saga about first the Bachman then the MDC woes for my son.

This Proto MU is my daughter’s club train. She join the local train club when I did. We both got PRR engines and UT1controllers. We bought this MU in early January and have had nothing but problems with it. She stopped going to the club in February and still has no loco. She really doesn’t want to share mine.

All my other engines work. It is my kids stuff that have been haing the problems. Don, if you’re out there you can say, “See I told you about orphans. See told ya, yep!”

12

Space,

How’s the MDC 4-6-0 going? I think there’s a lot of folks who would be interesting in knowing the outcome!

Dave

13

Most manuals with locos tell you not to send extras with locos for repair.I would never send loco in with decoders…pretty hard for life like to work on a loco with a decoder.For any MFG to work on anything under warranty the unit needs tobe as factory issued condition.Your MU problem lies in the fact you need to set CV values…many locos the same do not have same running characteristics.Split gears…likelike had a rash of this with GP9 and 7 units …a phone call to them will get you replacements or if you have old Athearn units lieing around junked the gears are the same.If you hold the unit up side down and the wheel freewheels on the axel thats a sure split axel.If you take the wheelsets out the split is not always obvious unless you use a magnifier.

14

Customer Service tactic #3
Refer to the recently deceased
“I sure hope nothing happens to old…Stan. He’s the only one who can help you”
(Quoting dilbert)
I find that this is close to that.
Trainboy

15

I probably shouldn’t have mailed the decoders. And yes, they ran horribly without the decoders. I Knew they probably wouldn’t do it, but since their locos had blown more money worth of decoders than I paid for the Protos, I thought they might go the extra mile and repalce the Digitrax with ones of their own.

I’m used to dealing with the gun world. If you send back a Ruger for any reason, it flat out comes back better than when you sent it in. They fix things you didn’t know were broken and tune the things that you thought were okay. That is what is expected.

Maybe the integrety of loco manufacturer’s…

16

I would have expected better myself. I will keep that in mind the next time I go shopping…[;)]
Thanks Chip

17

I took a rest from it since I ordered a Spectrum 2-8-0 for my kid. I’ll probably spend the bulk of this weekend painting otherwise working on it. So maybe next weekend, I’ll get back on the case. I have been emailed two excellent strategies of how others have dealt with this problem–complete with photos, so I know there are solutions.

I’'l keep you posted with a couple of bottle rockets when I get it on track<–ew bad pun.

18

I must say, I’ve had nothing but good experience with P2K locos so far. I have 3 GP-7’s and an S1. My father in law has an SD-7, a new SD45, an SW9, and a whole gaggle of E-units. I have decodered all of mine plus his SW9 and SD-7 so far. Other than my GP-7, they have all taken some work for DCC, it’s not been a direct drop-in - but LL isn’t the only bad apple in that regard.
The other night one of my GP-7’s started the thump-thump which everyone says is cracked gears - so I pulled both trucks apart to inspect the wheels and gears, no signs of cracking anywhere on the gears. No stress marks, nothing obvious. I put it back together - runs just as quiet as before. Hmmm…
I just picked up an MDC RS3 for cheap, it has the same drive as the P2K FA’s. This kit will take some time to put together because I want to change some of te details to be closer to a proper Reading loco, plus it’s unpainted, but I did test run the chassis and it seems fine. Talk about an Athearn knockoff - if the sides of the motor were bronze colored instead of silver, it IS an Athearn.

–Randy

19

Interesting!

A few days ago I was assembling one of the P2K 8000 gallon type 21 tank car kits, and I found that the kit was missing one entire parts tree (sprue). I called the 800 number, and the lady told me they would send the tree “if they have any.” Meanwhile, I took the missing tree from another one of the same kits I had on hand.

I’ve had the kit for probably two years or more. If LL doesn’t have the tree, I guess I’m just out of luck.

20

You should have called them and told them what it was doing they would have sent you replacement parts, the problem you describe is what I had in 3 of my GP9’s and I narrowed it down to the wheel gear assembly. I called about it and they sent me 4 new pairs free of charge. I think what we are seeing here is “Don’t send it back to them, repair it yourself.” Thanks for the heads up!

[:)]