November MR

[Jumijo]

An interesting side note on the trees article in this issue is that Brooks Stover, the author of this article, is also an author of book on modeling trees, advertized in this very issue of Model Railroader! Obviously the staff at Model Railroader feels Mr. Stover is expert enough on the subject to warrant Kalmbach’s publishing his book!

After reading this post, I did a Google search for Mr. Stover and came across a wonderful web site featuring his layout. You’d really be missing out if you don’t visit his site, liked below.

http://www.buffalocreekandgauley.com/MODELRAILROAD/ModelRailroads.html

[rrinker]

A very nice layout, faithfully modeling the BC&G which, but for a simple historic footnote, no one outside of the area would have ever heard of, PLUS he’s doing it in an almost forgotten minority scale - you don’t just walk into the LHS and buy BC&G locos and rolling stock, in any scale, let alone S.

–Randy

[BRAKIE]

Indeed his BC&G is one of my favorite layouts and I also like his MR article on operating his BC&G (2009?).

[NP2626]

Yeah,Kinda like a infomercial or prelude for his book.This isn’t the first infomerical or prelude article I’ve seen MR do for a adveriser or “expert” modeler that wrote a book…It won’t be the last either.

As many already knows the term “Expert” fails to impress me since “expert” is toss about like a Frisbee and means just as little…

Mr Stover’s article, as a kick-off for Kalmbach’s book written by Mr. Stover seems like good business sense to me and I can’t imagine them not taking advantage of this type of successful idea in the future.

As far as the misuse of the word “Expert” is concerned, I think it is probably bestowed upon those who rightfully deserve it! Then again, people do tend to pay to much homage to people who are “Experts” in a hobby, something that I and I think most others are doing for fun.

[f-unit]

Iwould like to know why that Soo Line F unit was not being by a alien gray ?

Dave

[BRAKIE]

As far as the misuse of the word “Expert” is concerned, I think it is probably bestowed upon those who rightfully deserve it! Then again, people do tend to pay to much homage to people who are “Experts” in a hobby

I agree with your assessment.

Here’s the rub that’s been bugging me for years…

Who are the “experts” that bestows the title of 'expert" and how did these “experts” become “expert” enough to grant “expert” status on others? [*-)] [swg]

[superbe]

Many ways to determine if some one is an expert.

Although not train related I always remembered this.

When I was in business and a product problem came up with one of our customers we would call for a factory rep to visit the customer. He would basically tell the customer the same thing we did but the customer was satisfied with the reps answer.

I asked him why this was and he said, because I’m from out of town and carrying a brief case.

Bob

[bogp40]

Many ways to determine if some one is an expert.

Although not train related I always remembered this.

When I was in business and a product problem came up with one of our customers we would call for a factory rep to visit the customer. He would basically tell the customer the same thing we did but the customer was satisfied with the reps answer.

I asked him why this was and he said, because I’m from out of town and carrying a brief case.

Bob

Yes amazing how the label of “expert” can instill that kind of confidence. The term “professional” is another that has bugged me for years in my trade. Anyone “paid” for their services is a “professional”, but this doesn’t mean that you are any good at what you are being paid for. I have spent a good part of my “professional” life righting the mess of other so called “professionals”

[pastorbob]

First let’s get over the idea that every issue is going to be of appeal to every model railroader around the world. Just doesn’t work that way.

Second, there is no way that MR can produce a mag every month that totally captures my interest. If it di the entire issue would feature ATSF diesels, ATSF cars, ATSF track plans, ATSF structures, ATSF operation, which would make ATSF modelers like me happy but no one else. And I suspect I would get bored eventually if every issue is ATSF. I subscribe to the ATSF Modelers Warbonnet which takes care of my ATSF fix.

Get serious, how many railroads are there today? How many were there 20 years ago? I would bet you can find at least one person that models each and every road, plus freelancers. There is more to the hobby than just what is at the end of your/my nose. ATSF is my passion, in 1989-1990 makes it better. But I also model the Frisco and Rock Island lines that came into my major town(Enid Okla) and interchanged with ATSF, so I want to include that. And there were a lot of private owner grain car companies that sent grain to the elevators at Enid and surrounding locations, and not all were on the Santa Fe, so again, Frisco and Rock Island or BN and UP depending on your era.

Now try to publish a monthly magazine that caters to all those railroad modelers, plus scenery, trees, structures, etc. Every magazine struggles to provide the best all round content, and it won’t always meet your interest, doesn’ mine either, but I still subscribe. Magazine wise I get my real fix from Santa Fe modelers, but I still like MR for ideas outside the circle.

Be happy you have what you get now, could be no magazines coming in the future.

Bob

[BRAKIE]

Many ways to determine if some one is an expert.

The jest of my question is who appointed the “experts” that bestows the mantle of “expert” on others?

I worked 9 1/2 years as a brakeman and never thought myself as a “expert” or a professional switchman even though I knew my job well.

I think “expert” is a title that is used way to freely just in order to impress the masses…

[floridaflyer]

Interesting how people form different parts of the country view things like puffball trees. In a couple of weeks, we should have some good fall color, and I cna take a ride up to the mountains, and until I actually get in the hills, ie, the whole while I am approaching the mountain, it loks EXACTLY like a bunch of multi-colored lichen spread across the hillside. There’s not an individual trunk to be seen, just occasional breaks for pwoer lines, and stands of evergreens in amongst the deciduous trees. I fins the puffball style exactly replciates what I see with my own eyes in the Applachian around my area. Making hundres if not thousands of trees with individual trunks and branches borders on the impossible, and I don’t see it yielding much better results once planted all together surrounded by others. Along the edges, and along any breaks in the forest cover - absolutely. Even driving right through the forest, you cna only see so far into it before the trunks all blur together.

–Randy

Exactly Randy, i model Pennsylvania in the fall, and puff balls work great. I mix my colors on each ball and add a small amount of green and a bit of fall rust to soften the look. Most of my puff balls are viewed from 4-6 feet away and as you say it looks like I’m in Pa in the fall. Great way to cover larger mountainous areas. I’ve found that the mixing of colors and adding rust was the key for me. I have seen pictures, like in the Nov. MR, where the balls look a little stark, but that is a subjective opinion, I am completely happy with my results.

[cuyama]

Who are the “experts” that bestows the title of 'expert" and how did these “experts” become “expert” enough to grant “expert” status on others?

When talented modelers such as Brooks Stover show their work, as in the November MR, we can all make our own judgement.

Then there are the people on Internet forums who proclaim themselves “expert” again and again, even going so far as to critique and criticize those who are actually willing to publish their modeling.

Yet these self-proclaimed forum “experts”, despite hundreds (even thousands) of posts criticizing others’ work as flawed, never show any of their own modeling.

Strange, no?

[maxman]

An interesting side note on the trees article in this issue is that Brooks Stover, the author of this article, is also an author of book on modeling trees, advertized in this very issue of Model Railroader! Obviously the staff at Model Railroader feels Mr. Stover is expert enough on the subject to warrant Kalmbach’s publishing his book!

Oh, is that correct? I don’t believe so, unless I’m looking at the wrong ad. The ad on page 6 says “save 30% on this article collection download”. It does not say that Mr. Stover is the author of the book. I believe that this book is a collection of articles from past issues of MR, similar to other downloadable books they’ve offered. Since I don’t know which articles are in the collection, I couldn’t tell you if Mr. Stover is even included.

So perhaps discussing whether or not someone is being consider an expert should be put off until a later time.

Just my opinion.

[NP2626]

You are correct, I had some of that information wrong. However, I don’t know how that necessarily must preclude a discussion on what constitutes an expert and how experts come into being.

There is a lot of venom in your response above what did I do to anger you so? Or, is it just the exultation that comes to those who can prove a very small point?

Oh, that’s right, it’s just your opinion. Well opinions are like… What?

[maxman]

You are correct, I had some of that information wrong. However, I don’t know how that necessarily must preclude a discussion on what constitutes an expert and how experts come into being.

There is a lot of venom in your response above what did I do to anger you so? Or, is it just the exultation that comes to those who can prove a very small point?

Absolutely no venom from my part, intended or otherwise. If you choose to imagine some, that’s up to you. Nor was there any exultation. I mearly asked if your statement was correct. It was entirely possible that there was another ad which I missed since I often make errors.

However if I am not in error, then this is not a small point nor did you have “some” of the information wrong. If I’m incorrect, I try to gracefully acknowledge the correction. You can do as you choose.

[BRAKIE]

Who are the “experts” that bestows the title of 'expert" and how did these “experts” become “expert” enough to grant “expert” status on others?

When talented modelers such as Brooks Stover show their work, as in the November MR, we can all make our own judgement.

Then there are the people on Internet forums who proclaim themselves “expert” again and again, even going so far as to critique and criticize those who are actually willing to publish their modeling.

Yet these self-proclaimed forum “experts”, despite hundreds (even thousands) of posts criticizing others’ work as flawed, never show any of their own modeling.

Strange, no?

That’s why I take a lot of salt when these self appointed 'experts" makes a reply and to be honest that’s why I seldom post pictures of my left hand modeling.

As for me I just don’t like green cotton balls with green ground foam sprinkled on no more then I liked the “lollipop” trees of the 50/60s made from lichen…BTW…I didn’t like the puffy ball trees when they first made their appearance in the '80s.

Surely in 2012 there is a better way to make a forest?

[blownout_cylinder]

The area that I model only has a few trees around…being mostly prairie…

But I wonder…

…if one notices in photo below…there are some emergents in amongst the trees here…anyone model these in their layout forest scenes?

For those not conversant in forestese…emergents are the really tall trees that stick out above the main tree canopy…

[NP2626]

You are correct, I had some of that information wrong. However, I don’t know how that necessarily must preclude a discussion on what constitutes an expert and how experts come into being.

There is a lot of venom in your response above what did I do to anger you so? Or, is it just the exultation that comes to those who can prove a very small point?

Absolutely no venom from my part, intended or otherwise. If you choose to imagine some, that’s up to you. Nor was there any exultation. I mearly asked if your statement was correct. It was entirely possible that there was another ad which I missed since I often make errors.

However if I am not in error, then this is not a small point nor did you have “some” of the information wrong. If I’m incorrect, I try to gracefully acknowledge the correction. You can do as you choose.

I’m not stupid, nor do I have mental health issues! I know what I see and am much more perseptive than the average person!

I was quick to acknowldge that I was wrong, what was the first thing I said in my original response to you?

Mr Stover did write an article on making trees, it was what triggered this discussion. Whether he is an expert, I don’t care! He doesn’t use the word to describe himself, nor has anyone else, excepting I loosly used the word in my incorrect assumption that he had authored what I thought was a book on the subject.

All of this is moot to this point. My opinion, from the beginning, has been :I don’t understand the critisim he has received for the article he wrote on making trees for his layout! Yes, you certainly have the right to use what he said; or, disregard. However, I find it offensive to the maximum to discredit and critisize others for their hard work and effort!

[BRAKIE]

Like I said before it takes nothing and no effort to be a critic and if your not going to prove that you are the expert on the subject, than you should SHUT UP!

That will never happen on a forum because a forum is a place for discussions pro or con on a given topic and I will mention one should put on his/her thick skin during these discussions.I learn that lesson fast after joining this and other forums.

You should have been around in the old days during the DCC vs. DC topics or ready to run versus kits heated debates.Then there was the very heated discussion over John Allen’s G&D.

Thankfully the moderators cleaned up Dodge City and discussions is more civilized now.

[NP2626]

I’ve been around here a lot longer than it would appear. Probably from around 99 to 2005 with another name.

Simply put, I don’t have thick skin. Don’t want it and will not allow that as an excuse to be critical of others hard work and effort! Like I told you, I feel we all have a responsibility to be respectful of others and if Forums are supposed to be a place where common courteousness is put on the siding so we can all sling hash at each other, then Forums are stupid and a stupendous waste of time!