I got a 2-8-2 Camelback in a trade.
Pardon my ignorance, but did they really make this?
Now, I’m not an expert on Camelbacks, but I believe that there was a 2-8-2 made. Can anyone reassure me on this? I don’t want to give out false info.
Yes, camelbacks are for real. I think especially used on some eastern roads ca.1900 which had poor burning coal, needed extremely large grate area to get enough heat to steam.
I don’t know specifically if there was a camelback in the 2-8-2 wheel arrangement, maybe a Reading or CNJ or Erie or DL&W fan would know. Sounds like the size of locos used same time camelbacks were around.
Model Railroader Cyclopedia Vol. 1 Steam Locomotive p.31 has scale drawings and a photograph of a Reading 0-6-0 camelback.
I assume the item you are referring to is a Mantua 2-8-2 Camelback. This model was based on the LV Mikado camelbacks, which were rather unique even among mother hubbards!. The model was initially available as a 2-8-2 and shortly later as a 4-6-2. Both were pretty much prototypically correct in appearance.
Later, a limited run 4-4-2 version was added that lacked any prototype (it was simply the 2-8-2’s body shell placed on Mantua’s Atlantic mechanism. Just before Mantua closed its doors, it also did a run of 2-8-0 camelback’s but these were just the 2-8-2’s without the trailing truck and again, were not based on a real engine (although there were many 2-8-0 camelbacks around at one time).
CNJ831
Yes it is a Mantua.
The B&O has a camelback Sittin right in the round house, I will see if I have a pic of it
Cheese - Save yourself the effort. The camelback in the B&O Museum is a CNJ 4-4-2 Atlantic which, other than having a Wootten firebox, shares no similarities with the Mantua models.
CNJ831
I’m interested in Camelbacks and the eastern roads. I didn’t think any Camelbacks had a trailing truck. I’m wrong again …
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/camelback/data.shtml
but I didn’t see a 2-8-2. However, CNJ831 is correct as usual …
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/camelback/lv.shtml
Jim
The LV was crazy about Camelbacks, and had at least four types with trailing trucks: 2-6-2, 2-8-2, 4-4-2 and 4-6-2. I’ve got photos of all four types, mostly pulled off the Fallen Flags website.
One other thing. They were outlawed due to the vulnerable position of the engineer in the event of an explosion. The idea was that the Wooten firebox could be used which was a very wide firebox used by the anthracite region railroads to burn the fines from the mining of anthracite coal. The extra surface area allowed a slower draft through the coal so it wouldn’t lift the fines off the bed. I don’t know how many people remain who have burned anthracite but it leaves virtually no ash. One year as a kid in the burbs of Philly we had a three day power outage due to snow and ice. Two 50# bags of anthracite in the fire place kept most of the house warm and there was nothing to clean up once the fire went out. With the Wooten being so wide it was decided to move the cab to the boiler hence the Mother Hubbard design.
There were camelback 2-8-2s, although not many of them - if I remember correctly, there’s even a picture of one in Kalmbach’s steam locomotive guide. I can’t remember who owned it, but a quick search of rosters by the roads other people have mentioned (LV, L&NE, CNJ, Erie, and DL&W) should turn it up.
Contrary to popular belief, they were never actually outlawed, but the engineer’s position astride the boiler was a pretty dangerous one if the engine broke a rod at speed. It was also hard to communicate with the fireman: there’s a great photo essay in David Morgan’s book “The Mohawk That Refused to Abdicate” which was shot on one of the last camelbacks in service.
Incidentally, there’s even a prototypical justification for using a camelback out West: the Southern Pacific owned exactly one, which it used in Arizona. Not Northern California, but close enough for modeler’s license.
“Model Railroader” published prototype drawings and photos of the Lehigh Valley’s 2-8-2 Camelbacks in the February 1979 issue, page 89. The late 19th- and early 20th-century Camelback engines were an adaptation for the extra-wide Wootten fireboxes needed to burn anthracite coal. That’s why they were so popular with the Eastern anthracite-hauling railroads. Later, when engine cabs tended to be built behind an engine’s firebox instead of over it, it turned out to be not so big a deal to put the cab behind the wide firebox.
So long,
Andy
If I’m not mistaken, I think the Camelback’s came as big as 0-8-8-0 Mallets. I think the Erie RR had a couple. I bet THAT was a sight to see!
Tom [:P]
Untrue. The ICC prohibited the construction of any further new camelback locomotives in the late 1920’s, for safety reasons. Essentially, the design was outlawed. However, the USE of existing locomotives was not curtailed and they were permitted operate until their removal from service. Some did last until the 1950’s.
CNJ831
I thought I read somewhere, and even saw a picture of, a Union Pacific 4-4-0 Camel that was used out west. It was in one of the early Nscale mags if memory serves.
Darn, now I’ve got to go hunt that up or it will drive me crazy! [:p]
This was, unquestionably, where Mantua got its design drawings from, as the model appearred only a couple of years after the MR article and drawings. Mantua’s choice was unfortunate, as it was for a locomotive design differing decidedly from typical examples of this sort of machine. A far better choice for a common camelback design would have been a RDG ten-wheeler, like the one shown in an earlier MR article. Those were very similar to camelbacks operating on nearly all the northeastern roads that employed these locomotives.
If you can find one, compare Mantua’s efforts with the AHM CNJ ten-wheeler, offered circa 1961. You’ll instantly see how radically to two differ in general design and appearance.
CNJ831
The Erie did have a couple of 0-8-8-0 camelbacks and they are a sight to see running. Both 3rd Rail and MTH made a version for O gauge. 3rd rail’s was available in both 2 and 3 rail.
Camelbacks were surely interesting looking beasts. Although they don’t do anything for me, I can see how somefolks luv 'em.
The most interesting camelback I’ve ever seen was not a model or a picture of the prototype but the watercolor painting by Ted Rose titled Three Men and a Camel. One of the calendar publishing houses had the painting as one of the picture for one of the months. The picture is a portrait of human frustration and the camelback is the perfect engine to use for the backdrop.