I am on one of my many trips to the Huntington Wv area. I stay near the old N&W Kenova, Wv - Portsmouth, Oh main line. In contrast to previous trips this time almost all the NS traffic has no cars with flat spots. Took me almost a day to realize why the various trains were. Including coal, grain, intermodal, and general freight were so quiet. The last time I was here ( about 2 months ago) NS had a Loram rail grinding train workiing both main tracks and noted some train cars had flat spots.
This portion of the route has almost no braking requirements so no braking to cause flat spots. Am wondering if NS has installed WILDs ( wheel impact and load detectors ) and using them to remove flat spotted cars from this portion of the Heritage corridor?? Anyone know what is going on ?? ZUG ??
To my knowledge, all of the major roads are installing WILD detectors. There are also AAR rules that permit or require various types of corrective action at particular detected impact levels (expressed as “kips” or “KPs”), including removal of cars from trains at high levels.
An interesting exception just a few minutes ago. a medium length general manifest train came by pulled by 2 CSX units ( no trackage rigts here ) Of course had some flat wheels ( maybe 10 - 20 ). If a CSX train could get on CSX at Kenova ??
The noise of flat spots is relatively evident to anyone in earshot of a passing train. There was an article in TRAINS some time back ( could not find the reference(?). That article was speaking to the issue, and mentioned that BNSF had instituted a program out in New Mexico (area of ABO Canyon) that was inspecting trains for wheel issue (out of round) and flat spotting.
So living near the Transcon, I began to listen for the sound of flat wheels. For quite a while there were none coming from the eastbound trains, but the westbounds were a whole other story. Lots of wheel bumping.
The article, IIRC also mentioned the installation of W.I.L.D. Detectors and also the development of wheel out of true detectors. Also was the program of replacement of wheels and trucks while the train was refuled and re-crewed.
Here are a couple of links to older stories about the WILD Detectors: ( some pretty good info here on how the Detectors function.)
I have heard some trains over on the UP’s (nee: RI RR) OKT sub, and reallyone can reallty hear some racket from flat spots, on mostlyy the grain cars on their trains.
There is a regular move on the Ark City Sub on BNSF that runs down to Dallas/Ft.Worth of the ‘NS’s Road Railer’ and on the few times I’ve caught it at Mulvane, it operates with very little ftat spot noise. The one’s I’ve sean have been upwards of 100 trailers!
(Don’t know what happened to my other post here…did I forget to post it?)
I’m surprised that you got a string of trains without hearing any flat spots. The mere presence of an audible flat spot will likely not trigger much, as the regulations provide flat-spot sizes below which the wheels aren’t condemned. Those smaller flat spots are unlikely to trigger the WILD detectors, either.
What you hear on a car depends on a variety of factors–empty cars (particularly coal cars and tank cars) will amplify the noise, while loads will keep the resonance down. I think we began to hear more flat wheels on passing trains when jointed rail was replaced with welded rail–the good ol’ clickety-clack was masking the flat-wheel noise in most cases; a wheel had to be really flat before one could distinguish that noise.
We had to set out a car at Council Bluffs one time because they said the WILD at Gothenberg NE caught a defect. Must not have been too bad though, since it went another 250 miles before being set out.
Our instructions for a dragging equipment alarm when operating on concrete ties require an audible inspection when nothing else is found. The conductor stations himself ahead of the indicated axle (plus 20) and has the train pulled by while he listens for broken wheels/excessive flat spots.
(Don’t know what happened to my other post here…did I forget to post it?)
I’m surprised that you got a string of trains without hearing any flat spots. The mere presence of an audible flat spot will likely not trigger much, as the regulations provide flat-spot sizes below which the wheels aren’t condemned. Those smaller flat spots are unlikely to trigger the WILD detectors, either.
quote]
Not as surprized as I was. Listened to many trains before posting this thread. Had another NS exception this afternoon that 8 - 10 flat spots on a unit empty (?) grain cars.
My carriers WILD detector create 4 levels of waring…the first 2 levels of warning go to the headquarters mechanical personnel with data they use for tracking and prediction purposes, The WILD detector is equipped with a car ID scanner and all alerts are issued by actual car number.
The 3rd level warrants notifying the train that has the car that it speed is not restricted to 30 MPH until the car is set out. In most cases, in my territory, it permits the train to proceed to it’s next terminal/crew change location (on my territory that will be the cars final destination) at the 30 MPH speed. Instructions in place state that the cars must be shopped and rewheeled at destination. Interestingly, 30 MPH cars that by mistake did not get shopped and rewheeled, do not activate the WILD detector when they pass by it on their empty trip - same flat spots, but the weight of the load creates a higher impact value and triggers a activation.
The 4th level demands that the crew stop and inspect the car, and if safe to do so, proceed to the closest set off location to set the car off at not exceeding 10 MPH. In my particular territory the WILD detector is 20 miles from the nearest set off location. When one is notified of a 4th level WILD activation you can immediately pencil in a minimum of 3 hours of delay to the train involved. Under current instructions, if, upon inspection, the crew finds a built up tread situation, the Car Dept must respond (nearest Car Dept location is 70+ miles away) before the car can be moved. If the Car Dept becomes involved you can then pencil in a minimum 6 hour delay to the train and you might as well get the recrew ordered. We have had as many at 15 cars set out at the set off location by multiple trains within the span of a week - repair for these cars is to have them rewheeled.
BaltACD: Good point. IMHO having a wild located at a point and having a short non controlled siding there would enable a quicker drop of any defective cars ?? The siding should naturally have good road access. Another location would be a wild in the middle of a passing siding on both tracks with a set out at the middle of the siding so could drop cars behind and push to set out siding ?
I too have noticed from listening and observing near the tracks that the following types of trains on the NS Reading Line main near here seem to have fewer flat spots than average (in no particular order):
RoadRailers
Multi-Level (auto racks)
CWR trains
Ballast trains
Some unit coal trains
Some intermodals
Some cuts of ethanol cars
For 1 - 5, I speculate that since the train tends to be uniformly all loaded or all empty, its handling and air brake response are more uniform. Hence, there aren’t any ‘lighter’ cars in those trains which are more prone to have their wheels lock and slide when a bigger brake application/ reduction is made to control the heavier cars in the train.
Also, for 3 and 4, I suspect the MOW personnel give better care to ‘their own cars’ than the average revenue car receives . . . [swg]
Paul that last comment is funny. Usually it seems company services cars receive less care than the revenue producing cars. I remember having a loaded CWR train that needed a 1000 mile air test. The dispatcher, then the corridor manager (chief) came on the radio to ask if maybe one had been done at North Platte. At Council Bluffs where they did the test, the car man asked, “what do we do if we find a bad-order?” While doing the test one of the car men called for the other to go back and get about 20 brakeshoes. They also had to retest at least one car’s air brakes, after working on it for about 45 minutes. It passed the second time.
One other cause of flat spots is the cars being dragged around a yard with hand brakes applied. A video shown during my last rules class showed it doesn’t take
Unwritten rule was to avoid using air with roadrailers at all costs. They have a nasty habit of kicking.
Most of the other types you mention probably don’t spend much time being classified car-by-car in yards. Many are in unit train or special service so they don’t get humped, rehumped, pulled, trimmed, classed, kicked, dropped, or any other of the fun stuff that hoppers or boxcars are regularly subjected to.
And yes, we have lots of WILD detectors now. So I’m sure that helps, too.
@ blue streak 1: Might any of those NS trains have been the unit coal trains that are testing Electronically-Controlled Pneumatic (“ECP”) brakes ? That technology should greatly reduce the frequency of flat wheels.
As someone who changes a lot of Wild wheels most do not have any flat spots , but generally there is a shelled spot on the wheel . From my experience most Flat Spots are caused by hand brakes not being released or loaded cars are moved with out being hooked to air and moved down the siding .
The FRA says that a Flat spot must be 2 1/2 inches long or 2 flat spots that are 2 inches long on the same wheel . Also Wild wheels are an AAR defect and unless bad ordered by the railroad are not required to be changed , but generally all class 3 and 4 wild wheels will get changed while at their ending terminal
@ blue streak 1: Might any of those NS trains have been the unit coal trains that are testing Electronically-Controlled Pneumatic (“ECP”) brakes ? That technology should greatly reduce the frequency of flat wheels.
Paul North.
[/quote
Paul will try to get trackside to look for ECP but trains are so quiet that unless locos are in run 8 ( locos usuaoly drifting at my location ) cannot hear them comiing in time.