There seems to be movements of a couple of NS trains into and out of Kirk Yard in Gary, In. on the CN. At first I thought these were just power balancing movements, but this week I heard the CN dispatcher refer to these trains as the “NS Train” (symbol 532 on an EB train).
These are moving into and out of Kirk Yard, Gary…down the EJE to Griffith then east thru NW Indiana (Valparaiso). I have seen or heard three of these movements the past week and all three are about 60 cars.
Any idea of what these movements are? I know the origin/destination pairing is Kirk, but what about the other destination/origin? I was thinking Elkhart, but that wouldn’t make sense when NS could run from Elkhart to Gary and interchange…why go thru Griffith to South Bend and then over on the NS? So…any help would be great.
Nothing unusual about connecting carriers having run-through train operations. As business and operating opportunities develop new services start and old services end.
I understand that and have been aware of those movements for decades. What is strange to me is where can CN handle freight for NS that they don’t go? As an NS train and not as a CN train?
Perhaps it is 32N and 33N between Kirk Yard, Gary Indiana and Elkhart Yard just 90 miles to the east. If so this is a very interesting movement. Kirk Yard is adjacent to the NS mainline in Gary and a direct shot to Elkhart. Yet this train is traveling on the old EJE from Kirk to Griffith, In (15 miles) then heading east on the ex GTW to South Bend (65 miles) then taking the NS line to Elkhart. For those of you who don’t know, the CN must use trackage rights on NS in South Bend to pass thru town.
I just heard on the scanner the 32N was cleared for Van Loon (CN -EJE line and NS NKP crossing). There is no real connection between CN and NS at that point to facilitate and efficient transfer…the connection is used for interchange.
Were the train going only to Valpo instead of to South Bend, it would make sense to me (if there’s a better connection than Van Loon at Valpo).
If that’s not the case, I have to wonder what, if anything, has happened to the NS-CN connection at Gary. I’m not intimately familiar with how the railroads connect at Curtis (near Pine Junction). I’m pretty sure CSX’s interchange with the J was handled at Curtis, but the NS line goes right down the middle at that point, I think.
There is a daily CSX / Williard to Kirk Yd train Q395 which exits off of the CSX to the former EJE “City Track” and then loops over the CSX on the J mainline to Kirk. In other words it basically does a 180 degree.
Looking at the CORA chart anything into or out of Kirk would be difficult for NS. Pine Yard is on the northside of the NS tracks and appears to have a few yard tracks with a lead heading east to Kirk.
I am wondering if CN hasn’t shifted it’s interchange with NS from Markham to Kirk recently and thus facilitated the movement on the CN thru trackage rights. The train seems to be referred to as either “NS Train” or possibly 32N. If it is carrying the 32N symbol while on CN…wouldn’t it be an NS train?
CN trains M347, M349 and A491 all originate at Kirk going to Winnipeg (MB), Prince George (BC), and Stevens Point (WI) respectively.
There are a pair of symbols that are “NS Chicago” to Winnipeg, MB trains. M341 is the northbound train and M340 is the southbound train. Last I heard they were interchanging at Pullman Jct and/or CN’s Hawthorne Yard.
I have heard that there may be some trackage rights traffic due to some infrastructure expansion…but confirmed nothing.
I was pretty sure that the major eastern railroads had connected with EJ&E somewhere in the vicinity of Pine, rather than further east.
On that subject, I’ve been through the realignment area, but, thanks to streets that don’t run true NS or EW, I haven’t really gotten myself wrapped around what I’m seeing there.
It does look like the road (Chicago) that used to be Indiana 312 will be permanently severed where the CN’s new line crosses. Perhaps a good spot to pull off and watch trains?
As for what CN calls them, just figure than “NS Train” is a readiy-identifiable nickname. The trains are probably known as 32N and 33N over their entire route, but the CN dispatcher might mind the strange number a little unwieldy.
“Temporary trackage rights trains(the 32N and 33N are the NS trains, yes) due to the Gary airport expansion track realignment.”
Yeah, and I had to take a look on Google Earth to sort thing out. Finally was able to get a mental picture after looking. NS is constructing a big loop west of Gary Airport. You can clearly see it. Somewhat OT, but I don’t see why Gary Airport needs to add a couple thousand feet to their runway. There will never be transoceanic flights landing there. The whole project seems like a waste of money to me.
BTW, been in aviation for over 30 years and know what can and can’t land at Gary.
I heard the CN dispatcher refer to the westbound NS train this morning as 533. So we have a 532 eastbound around 4pm and the westbound is about 6am - 10am thru Valpo.
The black NS units charging up the hill past the Valparaiso depot sure looks a bit strange, but not entirely as IC black geeps have been know to wander this way.
I gotta get out and take a couple of photos of these trains.
The CN/NS run thru trains are labeled 17R and 17W on the NS. These are Elkhart trains. Several years ago 17R would run on the NS - NKP line thru Ft Wayne to Columbus, Ohio yard, but that was changed. That train was a monster back 5 years ago, seemingly with half of Western Canada tied to 3 big CN/NS motors. I saw many of 17R’s in excess of 150 cars. The train also seemed to pickup a Wisconsin Central block of cars (Fond du Lac perhaps?).
"Work at the airport includes rerouting the rail line and increasing the runway length by more than 1,000 feet. The project will bring the runway in compliance with a 1999 FAA mandate.
Landry said without the expansion the runway was able to accommodate only 20 percent of the different planes a typical carrier uses. When airline officials have courted airlines the response has been, when something changes, let them know, he said"
Thanks for the info on the use of Porter Branch to access Kirk Yard. I assume the Q395 will run that route instead of the City Line, which seems to be congested at times for Q395. Will there also be USX coal trains moving via the Porter Branch. Not sure how much CSX runs to USX, but NS runs quite a bit thru Van Loon.
Yes US steel trains will also be routed down the Porter Branch. All this work is supposed to take place next year.
Some of CSX’s symbols off the top of my head for US Steel at Gary are , K380, K381, E494 and T920. I know there are more, just none of them are coming to me right now.
Hey…thanks for the symbols. I recognize most of those as going to Miller area, but never really knew the destinations.
Just wondering, and I know you wouldn’t know if NS is going to route their Van Loon traffic via Elkhart and Porter Branch including their daily 323 coil train.
Now, for an update on the “mystery train.” Just heard the CN dispatcher talk to the NS WB train (refered to it as NS xxxx west (without symbol)…train is to hold at Morgan Porch Road for “NS to recrew”. So, it appears this is an NS train that uses NS crews which are qualified.
532/533 are the symbols which are being used by CN. I believe these are the CN symbols used for locals. A dispatcher has also referred to it as 32N, which I believe is a NS symbol.
The 5XX series on CN is for locals, so L533/L532 would be the first part of the symbol. Depending on if the trains are out of a former GTW area the next part would be 6X where “X” is the section (anything other than 1 is an extra) or out of “Chicago” which I think Kirk is part of it would be a 9X symbol.
You would be seeing L53291-27 or L53391-27 for today’s train if it’s a “Chicago Area” train.
You would be seeing L53261-27 or L53361-27 for today’s train if it’s a “former GTW area” train.
Up where I am (former WC turf) we have L53381-27 (today) which goes from Neenah, WI to Kaukauna, WI and back via Appleton, WI.
The westbound was at Griffith awaiting movement into Kirk this morning at 730. So it seems NS has established the WB, as I have heard it several times around 6am or so. The EB seems to be a late afternoon schedule.
Here is my next question…let’s say NS knows they are going to run this track via trackage rights for a short term…6 months to 12 months. I assume, since they are running their own crews, that these crews are “qualified” over the CN.
What is involved with the "qualification’?
Since Elkhart no doubt has a huge pool of crew members, is this a job which would normally be assigned to the same crews on a regular basis? How many crews would NS typically need to qualify in order to protect this run without the use of a pilot from CN? Would crews “bid” on this job in order to have it as a regular move? Seems to make sense to me…qualify a few crews for this and then use two crews for normal operations with a couple more qualified.
Operations and manpower coverage always intrigued me.
CN dispatcher gave the NS 2607 a slow order this afternoon, so I hustled down to the Valpo depot to get a photo of the NS train and the depot before both are gone.
Wow…NS took a lesson from EHH as this monster of a train had 160 cars and 3 locomotives. The boys and girls of Kirk Yard are going to be busy breaking this train apart tonight.